OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.

[DrJack Posts Ponies C:]

Engie can punch bitches, most op class in prophunt pls remove.

[box]

LEAVE BRITNEY* ALONE!!!


*class weapon damage

[mongolian-bbq]

What about Flare gun getting a nerf?  They're deadly as fuck.

Flare gun is deadly, yes, but considering you can track it through the air it is relatively easy to dodge, except for the flame-flare combo which is similar to the axtinguisher combo, except you can live through it (as I have experienced as prop and hunter many times). If you're getting hit a lot as a prop just practice jumping and weaving instead of just running in straight lines. That's just my opinion, and yes this is a bit late.

[Shooter`]

Suggestion: Either limit the sticky jumper to one sticky out at a time (still allows air pogo) or tell people that "Hey, if there's a demoman flying at your face, you should probably stop sitting in spawn and start running away." On nearly every map that's not indoors, a demo can 2-sticky right to the red spawn and pick up kills on a good portion of the red team before any pyros, and in some situations, even soldiers, can get there. I don't think it's a fault with the sticky jumper so much as a fault that new players all love to hide right in red spawn and don't know to run from anything besides pyros, but until there's some form of tutorial - I'm not even sure how this would be implemented, if at all - it's the only fix I can think of.

Also, I'm not sure if this is even possible, but is there a way to (easily) un lag-compensate weapons that kill in one hit? I've got no problem with being hit by an axetinguisher or something similar but when it appears that they missed by 15-20 feet to everyone but the guy with the weapon, it becomes a little bit frustrating. List of weapons like this: axetinguisher, postal pummeler, market gardener, ullapool caber (this one's especially frustrating because there's no prerequisite to hitting you with it like the others), and any demoman melee weapon during a charge n' targe or splendid screen charge.

[HipsterGlaceon]

Suggestion: Either limit the sticky jumper to one sticky out at a time (still allows air pogo) or tell people that "Hey, if there's a demoman flying at your face, you should probably stop sitting in spawn and start running away." On nearly every map that's not indoors, a demo can 2-sticky right to the red spawn and pick up kills on a good portion of the red team before any pyros, and in some situations, even soldiers, can get there. I don't think it's a fault with the sticky jumper so much as a fault that new players all love to hide right in red spawn and don't know to run from anything besides pyros, but until there's some form of tutorial - I'm not even sure how this would be implemented, if at all - it's the only fix I can think of.

Also, I'm not sure if this is even possible, but is there a way to (easily) un lag-compensate weapons that kill in one hit? I've got no problem with being hit by an axetinguisher or something similar but when it appears that they missed by 15-20 feet to everyone but the guy with the weapon, it becomes a little bit frustrating. List of weapons like this: axetinguisher, postal pummeler, market gardener, ullapool caber (this one's especially frustrating because there's no prerequisite to hitting you with it like the others), and any demoman melee weapon during a charge n' targe or splendid screen charge.

Is this what you mean? http://forums.saxtonhell.com/index.php?topic=163.0

[Shooter`]

Is this what you mean? http://forums.saxtonhell.com/index.php?topic=163.0

No, this (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Hitscan) and this (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Lag_compensation).

Hitscan weapon damage is dealt client side rather than server side so it depends completely on that the attacking player sees rather than where players actually are in the game. This is what people are actually complaining about when they complain about the various pyro/heavy/soldier/engie/etx shotguns. The shotgun cannot be dodged in any meaningful way because dodges are usually quick movements that will not have registered on the attacker's computer by the time they take the shot. It's also why I complain so much about getting axed. Short of a perfectly timed (~50-80 ms window, can go higher depending on the attacker's ping) jump over their head, you're dead in one hit. Dodging hitscan weapons depends on the attacker being bad at aiming rather than you being good at dodging, and when one team can't shoot back, takes a good deal of fun out of the game.

Lag compensation increases the leeway you have when using hitscan weapons to make shots. It's partially why laggy players stutter rather than just playing X milliseconds in the past - the game's trying to give them the real-time game footage but their connection can't process the information fast enough to display it. It's also the cause of long range melee hits - I'm not sure if you were there but I was playing with Luve the other day and she hit me with a rake a full half second after I turned a corner on both of our screens. It's an extreme example, but I'm sure you've seen it at work. Those articles above explain it better than I can.

Hitscan and lag-compensation are both designed to help with hit registration for laggy players at the expense of a little frustration on the part of players with good ping. When they implemented this, there were no weapons that could kill anyone in one hit save for the spy knife and sniper rifle. Now, there are.

[VoiDeD]

Hitscan weapon damage is dealt client side rather than server side so it depends completely on that the attacking player sees rather than where players actually are in the game. This is what people are actually complaining about when they complain about the various pyro/heavy/soldier/engie/etx shotguns.

That's not how it works. The source engine is entirely server authoritative. The server keeps a history of game frames so that when a client attacks with a hitscan weapon, the server will rewind to the frame that they fired at, given their latency, and figure out if the attack hit and how much damage it did. It's this rewind action that people are actually complaining about.

Given that, there's nothing that can be done about it. Latency is a fact of life.

[Shooter`]

That's not how it works. The source engine is entirely server authoritative. The server keeps a history of game frames so that when a client attacks with a hitscan weapon, the server will rewind to the frame that they fired at, given their latency, and figure out if the attack hit and how much damage it did. It's this rewind action that people are actually complaining about.

Given that, there's nothing that can be done about it. Latency is a fact of life.

Ah, I believe I should have said hit detection, not damage is determined by the client's perspective, in that case. Is there anything besides a semantic difference between saying hit detection is determined by the client's perspective and that the server rewinds the game frames?

Either way, sucks that it can't be fixed. I don't think any of those weapons themselves are OP, it's just extremely frustrating to be killed by something that, to the best of your abilities, you dodged.

[VoiDeD]

Is there anything besides a semantic difference between saying hit detection is determined by the client's perspective and that the server rewinds the game frames?

No, but,

client side

specifically implies that the client is telling the server when and how much damage it did. There are a few games that use this method.

Crysis and it's awful client authoritative networking comes to mind

.

[9mmpainpill]

Soldier shotgun OPness is too damn high!

[Marshii]

If at all, is there a way to reduce minigun knock-back so that props can still run despite taking damage? I often find that when hit by a minigun when trying to run or in tye middle of a jump that I get shoved to the nearest wall and then get stuck there because you cannot run with mini-gun spray in your face?
Damage dealt is not an issue for me although if possible the Long-Heater's charge up (fire-ring) attack could deal damage to the player if possible (not sure if it does already though)

[Shooter`]

If at all, is there a way to reduce minigun knock-back so that props can still run despite taking damage? I often find that when hit by a minigun when trying to run or in tye middle of a jump that I get shoved to the nearest wall and then get stuck there because you cannot run with mini-gun spray in your face?
Damage dealt is not an issue for me although if possible the Long-Heater's charge up (fire-ring) attack could deal damage to the player if possible (not sure if it does already though)

I THINK that knockback is tied directly to the weapon's damage. It's why the rocket launchers besides the jumper have awful jumping, why the scattergun has more knockback against jarated players than normap players, and why the crit flares deal more knockback than normal flares.

[VoiDeD]

I THINK that knockback is tied directly to the weapon's damage. It's why the rocket launchers besides the jumper have awful jumping, why the scattergun has more knockback against jarated players than normap players, and why the crit flares deal more knockback than normal flares.

Yep. Physics force is scaled by the amount of physical damage done.

[MisterSunshine]

One reason I don't like the minigun is that it is spray damage. You could compare it to a flamethrower with much longer range.

And while you can't fire it for very long under normal circumstances, you can either go find ammo/health or have an engie build a dispenser for you.

That's why the minigun can be an unfair advantage. The heavy can spray all over and find people.

[Shooter`]

One reason I don't like the minigun is that it is spray damage. You could compare it to a flamethrower with much longer range.

And while you can't fire it for very long under normal circumstances, you can either go find ammo/health or have an engie build a dispenser for you.

That's why the minigun can be an unfair advantage. The heavy can spray all over and find people.

The way miniguns and flamethrowers work is completely different - the minigun is hitscan and the flame thrower is treated as a projectile.

If the heavy sprays all over and finds me (which has only happened once), I (as well as anyone who knows what getting hit means) will be out of there before the heavy can come over to me, assuming he even knows what he hit. If he does somehow catch up to me, he probably won't have good enough tracking to kill me - have you played heavy against a scout with half decent movement? It can be difficult.

Of course, all of that logic goes out the window as soon as he starts sitting on the CP, spun up. It's kind of hard to dodge that one, especially if it's on a map with few to no additional health packs like brawl or goldtooth.