Author Topic: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.  (Read 96439 times)

Offline Weeaboo

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2012, 04:12:03 am »
Troll response or do you really think I don't know/haven't played the mod before? I wouldnt be talking at all if I didn't play PH. Maybe when you leave your spot, you look ahead to see what lies there. Go into 3rd person if you need to in order to get a larger FOV. Maybe you don't head straight for the CP and instead try to grab some health packs.
Troll response, broski.

Offline Shooter`

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2012, 03:22:29 pm »
Maybe when you leave your spot, you look ahead to see what lies there. Go into 3rd person if you need to in order to get a larger FOV. Maybe you don't head straight for the CP and instead try to grab some health packs.

You know just as well as I do that this isn't always true. There's plenty of maps with only one health pack besides the center control point, some of which get camped just the same as the control point, others where the health pack sits right next to the control point, and yet others where there's only one small HP pack which isn't even enough to cover flare damage regardless of afterburn or half of a perfect shotgun shot. Sometimes you're being chased by someone just as fast as you and you need the large HP boost in order to get away. Either way, it's disproportionately hard to dodge someone who's sitting right on top of where you need to be.

Also, the weapons that are mostly being discussed here - Reserve Shooter and the Heavy's miniguns - are both hitscan weapons and lag compensated and as such cannot be dodged like you can dodge flamethrower particles or flare shots. The instant whoever's wielding the weapon clicks their mouse, the hit registers - that is what is meant by hitscan - and no matter how much either of you are lagging, if the hunter shoots where he/she sees you on their screen, you will get hit - that is lag compensation.

Hitscan weapons - which include basically everything with bullets (miniguns, all shotguns, RS, all scatterguns, all pistols, and all melee weapons which actually act as a short-range ranged weapon instead of true melee) - are incredibly frustrating to play against because lag throws the balance of the weapons out the window, and that is why people are complaining about playing against them despite their damage being fairly insignificant compared to the DPS provided by the flare gun and the pyro primaries.


Also, Voided, I'm not sure if it's already available but would I be able to look at the Prop Hunt config file so I can make in informed post instead of saying "hurr, X is OP pls nerf"?

Offline VoiDeD

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2012, 04:17:20 pm »
Also, Voided, I'm not sure if it's already available but would I be able to look at the Prop Hunt config file so I can make in informed post instead of saying "hurr, X is OP pls nerf"?


Sure.

Offline Shooter`

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2012, 05:55:57 pm »
Why is pyro shotgun limited to 2 shots but soldier, engy, and heavy shotgun isn't?

Also, if there a knockback value to mess around with? I think if the heavy's minigun had less knockback as well as somewhat lower damage it would be balanced.

Currently you have it set at 75% of max damage - this means the heavy's minigun (stock) maxes out at 510*0.75 = 382.5, or more than twice the max damage of the stock flamethrower - 158 DPS - even though max DPS is nearly impossible to get.  The minigun also has infinite range even though there is the steep damage drop off and bullet spread.

I'd suggest dropping the minugin damage to 30-35% and messing around with the knockback (if possible, but I think that changes automatically with the damage).

Offline DrJack Posts Ponies C:

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2012, 08:29:43 pm »
All those numbers impressed me, Voidy do what he says

Offline box

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2012, 02:53:00 pm »
How fucked up is our cfg gonna be compared to FreeFrag (which is back up) and Gamingmasters? Nothing fucks up a mod that shares stats, etc, with three different cfgs and three different servers. We'll hop on one for easy weapon damage, another for srs restricted damage, and another for who the fuck knows.

Offline bombs

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2012, 03:07:19 pm »
SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS


Offline box

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2012, 06:10:16 pm »
I don't give a shit about stats and have campaigned numerous times at GM to have them reset or dropped entirely. However, if they're gonna exist you might as well all play by the same rules, don't you think?

Offline VoiDeD

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2012, 09:11:36 pm »
However, if they're gonna exist you might as well all play by the same rules, don't you think?

That's the argument I've always used for not wanting to change the configs. I don't believe it's right to wildly differentiate between other ranked servers.

However, with certain things like reducing the RS's damage a little, I felt that that had to be done in order to make the game less of a ragefest, and I don't believe the damage reduction will contribute to that large of a skew in the stats.

Offline Weeaboo

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2012, 12:36:29 am »
What about Flare gun getting a nerf?  They're deadly as fuck.

Offline Shooter`

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2012, 12:58:20 am »
That's the argument I've always used for not wanting to change the configs. I don't believe it's right to wildly differentiate between other ranked servers.

However, with certain things like reducing the RS's damage a little, I felt that that had to be done in order to make the game less of a ragefest, and I don't believe the damage reduction will contribute to that large of a skew in the stats.


It's not just the configs, the three servers have a few fundamentally different settings. Our server has propmenu enabled for anyone who's donated in the past month while GM has it only enabled for "clan members", and as far as I know FFN has it only enabled for admins. On PH hell and FFN you can nominate and vote for maps (30 minute time limit) while on GM you can only vote - no nominations; the maps are also limited to 20 minutes. these small things might not seem like much but someone who has donated can attempt to run our server through a circuit of small "point-farming" maps while giving themselves the best props - a combination of advantages that you cannot get on either of the other two servers. The only other differences that I could think of is PH hell attempts to block players from joining spectator while GM doesn't and GM limits red dead, spectator, and blue dead chat from being seen to living players on the other team.

The minigun damage decrease might seem like a large change but in effect it wouldn't be - heavy is limited to two hunters at a time and often times one of them is playing a "troll" loadout such as taunt heavy or holiday punch. However, the current damage that one competent (read: not brain-dead) heavy can do while sitting on the control point or one good (read: knows how to find props even if they can't do much else) heavy can do roaming limits your options of survival to "don't be near the heavy," which is not always something you can do. Even at 50% damage dropoff range a heavy with average to above-average tracking can kill a scout in roughly a second which isn't much especially after you take into account the large amount of knockback that all heavy primaries do.

There are other differences - while Voided has been keeping the PH config updated with the updates, the new botkillers have not been blacklisted yet - and I think the old ones and AWPer hand haven't been either. Hell, I'm not even sure if the strange festives have been blocked yet - they weren't last time I went festive sniping over there. Another difference is that the speed boosts on a fully boosted heavy apply to his spun up speed as well as his normal walking speed (good on you for fixing that here :) ). While these changes have - arguably - had a bigger effect on the game than small changes, like a minigun, flare gun, or axetinguisher rebalance would, the configs are already different and I see no reason not to change them more if a significant portion of the community thinks it is a good idea - the only arguments I've heard from you are "we shouldn't change from GM" and "I have no problem dealing with these things so you shouldn't either," but we all know you're probably the best prop hunter there is, and if I might add: one of the best scouts I've had the pleasure of playing with.

Also, Voided, even although this is somewhat off topic for the OP weapons thread, would you consider making a trial admin for the prop hunt server (much like Pho on the jump server) so we don't always have to come crying to you every time there's one person ghosting or something?

Finally, if you must have the vanilla GM prop hunt experience, you could always go play a few round on GM, isn't that right, box?  ;)

Offline jay50jay

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2012, 11:30:00 pm »
Today I learned that Prophunt is serious fucking business and is not to be taken lightly.
"If you see a moose, just whip your dang out and start whackin' it. That kind of sexual confidence will get inside the moose's head." - Northernlion, June, 2012.

Offline Shooter`

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2012, 02:38:03 pm »
I can guarantee you there's a small set of people that feel the same way about your favorite game type that we do about prop hunt. Everything is serious business to some people.

Offline MrEskimoMan

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2012, 07:09:43 am »
Every time I die/lose as blue, I cut holes in my ankle with a rusty knife, and rip off a fingernail.
#StopRuiningProphunt2K13 :)

Offline HipsterGlaceon

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Re: OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2012, 07:16:41 pm »
I'm also on the side of thinking the Heavy and Soldier shotguns need to be nerfed down to the pyro shotgun status. Heavy has the minigun going for him and any good soldier can rocket jump and spray 6 shotgun bullets at a time to do massive damage.

Engie, well, it's an engie. He has a melee and a shotgun. Nothing really else going for him there.