Weapons suggestions general

Eviction Notice should just make u be like holiday punch u remove stun when hitting hale

Quoted text

IMO
The Huo-Long Heater - Make you move faster while spun up
Buffalo steak - Damage reduction 50%? would make medic heavy combos stronger but it wears off after 7 seconds anyways, Would still have melee only.
not even sure we can do that one.
The Family Business - Slightly more accurate and shoots a bit faster
Eviction Notice - no fucking clue

I still think the heater's flames should deal more damage, but I'm fine with the move speed increase. Do whatever is needed for the Buffalo Steak Sandvich, kinda like how the phlog get's a defensive buff during "MMPH". Family business, I'm worried about it just getting slightly better accuracy, like what do you mean percentage wise. Final suggestions for buffing the Eviction notice:

> 25 HP restored on hit + 5% move speed while deployed
or
> 20% weapons switch speed, so heavies could knock away hale then get back to their minigun
or
> Faster sandvich regeneration per hit or in general.

Suggestions from other people that play heavy would be useful.

I'll wait to talk about other least used weapons  for other classes, just so I don't overwhelm people with my suggestions.

lonestar13m wrote Nov 18, 2013 8:12:53 PM View original post

I still think the heater's flames should deal more damage, but I'm fine with the move speed increase. Do whatever is needed for the Buffalo Steak Sandvich, kinda like how the phlog get's a defensive buff during "MMPH". Family business, I'm worried about it just getting slightly better accuracy, like what do you mean percentage wise. Final suggestions for buffing the Eviction notice:

> 25 HP restored on hit + 5% move speed while deployed
or
> 20% weapons switch speed, so heavies could knock away hale then get back to their minigun
or
> Faster sandvich regeneration per hit or in general.

Suggestions from other people that play heavy would be useful.

I'll wait to talk about other least used weapons  for other classes, just so I don't overwhelm people with my suggestions.

i like the 25 hp on hit, but i got to say one thing battalions backpack and dieing from fall damage when hale hits u and u get launched across the map to die, can you put mantread stats of less fall damage on wear to allow them to survive

While we're on the subject, while I appreciate the speed boost given to the spy after a backstab, the speed boost lets hale see where the spy is. Was that intentional, or can we fix that somehow?

huh7600 wrote Nov 22, 2013 8:20:22 PM View original post

While we're on the subject, while I appreciate the speed boost given to the spy after a backstab, the speed boost lets hale see where the spy is. Was that intentional, or can we fix that somehow?

thats on purpose  and its not a bug its in tf2 itself if a spy gets whipped u see the speed boost

huh7600 wrote Nov 22, 2013 8:20:22 PM View original post

While we're on the subject, while I appreciate the speed boost given to the spy after a backstab, the speed boost lets hale see where the spy is. Was that intentional, or can we fix that somehow?

It's intentional. It gives hale a chance to try to follow the spy in 1v1-like situations where it's easier to notice the speed boost trail.

Here's a new wave of suggestions for the current weapons, I'll try not to be too nonsensical and make good points to what and why!

First Class: Scout
As it stands with this class, the scout is underpowered and overpowered depending on who is using him. I mean there are high-teir scouts like Critical that deal 5k+ damage without stomps, tech high-teir scout like dr.metean who can get the goombas and go past 4k, and then I see a bunch of players who can't break 1.5k most of the time (including myself). So take my suggestions for this class with a grain of salt (especially if they aren't feasible).

Scout Primaries:
Shortstop> Increase the healing bonus for 20% to 30-50%, that way scouts can reliably take a hit from hale with overheal without the need of the PBPPistol.
BFB> It'd be really awesome if we could replace the running boost mechanic into something that allows the scout to run faster for a short period of time, after dealing enough damage to fill the boost meter. For example, the scout stays running at his normal speed with the baby face blaster, no matter what the meter is at, but when the meter is full, the play could hit alt-fire to give the scout a boost of speed for several seconds.
Force-a-nature> Maybe remove the damage penalty?
Soda popper> Increase the clip by one?

Scout Secondaries:
Winger> Increase the damage bonus to 30%
Crit-a-cola> Make it give a winger if the person is last one standing? The only reason I see the scout should keep it is for the speed boost provided but it's gonna be hard to drink effectively being the only person alive, at least with the winger there is the jump height increase for mobility.
Bonk! atomic punch> Maybe instead of full melee invulnerability, it just resists melee damage by 70%. Oh, and if goombas are allowed under effects, they should be crit.

Scout melees:
Fan-o-war> I'm not sure if you noticed, or if anyone did, but I don't think the Fan actually removes rage per hit. Maybe there's an unnoticed update bug with it but I dunno. Anyway, I was thinking that instead of removing rage, each hit dealt by it increases the healer's ubercharge by 5%. This could allow medics to risk working with scouts. (maybe increase the attack range at least).
Wrap assassin> I like that it has +100% secondary ammo, but maybe it could be increased to +300%. Maybe decrease the recharge time by 15%?
Boston Basher> *troll*Increased melee swing speed*/troll*, or maybe added increase of health kit effectiveness by like 40%
Holy Mackerel> You know how the each hit is shown in the kill feed, why not extend it to giving hale an outline for a few seconds. Like with the standard sniper rifle.


Second Class: Soldier
The jumper that eats hales like babies, and makes them cry that they can't catch him either. Why did valve do the hi-5 thing, but that still doesn't stop him from laying down crockets. Well, there isn't much I'd like to say about this class because he is well balanced for the most part, but I still have a few ideas.

Soldier Primaries:
Beggar's Bazooka> Well, I was thinking if the firing/loading speed should be increased slightly. Or maybe make it so it buffs secondaries or melee items. I also noticed you can't rocket jump as high with it, or maybe the other rocket launchers became more floaty ?_?
Liberty Lawnchair> With it's current ability to reduce self harm for rocket jumping, I was thinking it'd be cool to allow shotguns to get full crits. Kinda like how the demoman gets full crits when he equips a shield.
Direkt Hit> Damage increases with more airshots done in a chain, like 5% each time? Resets when target is grounded.
Rocket Jumper> What I hate about the rocket jumper taking the mantreads effect is that you can't use whichever rocket launcher. You are forced to stay with the standard rockets. What'd be cool if you could could choose what type of rockets you fired on the fly, like the amp menu for the engineer. If that's too OP maybe just at the round start?

Soldier Secondaries:
Buff banner> You know what'd be awesome, if a full banner would allow the soldier to drop 2 half/full ammo packs to pick up. I know it probably wouldn't match well but it would have tons of usage in helping out a team.
Mantreads> I know I suggest this a lot, but it'd be really nice if the mantreads came with a speed/jump height bonus. If you can't rocket jump to oblivion, might as well be able to run there in style. Pair it with the Displinary Action and you got a good thing going for soldier. It'd also work well for Bazooka Soldiers
Conchorer> I like how the weapon is right now after valve buffed it to be usable, however I think that the current effect is a bit limited to vsh. I was thinking of extending the duration by 2 seconds, giving the players a good chance to chase hale to get enough health to back off. It'd also be nice if it allowed 50% overheal via damage.
Back-up battalion> Needs more honks
Reserve shooter> Give us that 4th clip, valve did, it'd do a ton more D:

Soldier Melee:
Equalizer> I was told that if you health was below 10%, you still get a speed boost in vsh. Not to the effect of the escape plan but it still should be there. Could someone confirm if it's true?
Disciplinary Action> The soldier should get a speed boost if he hits hale, but iirc Exile/Voidy said a while back that that caused some bugs.
Escape Plan> As a fun idea, a successful taunt kill hit should do 12% of health damage to hale. Or at least a respawn. Or some awesome music.
Freedom staff> Every successful hit from the freedom staff should have the sound of eagle screeching (I suggest this sound effect: ), or a successful hale kill has the star spangle banner played in the background. Kinda like how a double airshot finish causes a giant explosion.

Third Class: The Pyro (aka airblast for major environemental damage)
No seriously, one of the main schticks for some maps (Garbage Day/the new oriental themed map) is that hale can lose up to 1000 health per second and that is where the pyro excels. OTher than that abuse, the pyro doesn't have much more on his plate for damage. Another thing the pyro could do is get goombas via strategic airblast/flare jumping ways, but that's damage that only exists via a plugin. Implementing a way for standard pyro playthough in vsh is practically impossible as pyros have to work in close encounters against enemies. That doesn't work well when almost all hales can one-shot them with a punch without overheal, and with overheal plus valve's insane fall damage system. Anyway, let's get it going on with some of my ideas.

Pyro Primaries: Let's say for a second that the degreaser is basically the best weapon for pyros in vsh. With it's quick weapon switch and ability to airblast, it allows for a numerous amount of attacking possibilities and maneuvering in vsh. And that the only thing that it lacks is the defense buff + full crits of the phlog. What I suggest is to mix the two and make it as the standard flamethrower for vsh, kinda like how the Medic as the Medi-gun + Kritzkrieg combo. Some sort of tweaking would give pyros a real distrinction from other classes in order to output high amounts of damage while still being able to move at ease. That's my suggestion for Pyro Primaries, just make a useful standard.

Pyro secondaries: I personally would suggest all secondaries get a damage boost outside of full (mini) crits, but for 2 specific weapons...
Scorch Shot> being able to knockback hale or at least getting a better chance to ignite hale is awesome, not being able to get mini/full crit damage after hitting an ignited hale without taunting blows. I suggest maybe increasing the damage done by after burn by 50-70% to make things more interesting.
Manmelter> a supportable godsend against cave johnson as you can extinguish players without using precious ammo to build free crits. But other than that, what use does it have against the other hales? I have no ideas what to do though, but something needs to be done

Pyro melees: It'd be cool if the pyro got a range extension for melee
Fire Axe> Something about swinging the plain ol' fire axe at hale feels good, but maybe the pyro should be able to swing it maybe 15-20% faster.
Axtingusiher/Postal Pummeler> Do you think it'd be possible to not only give full crits, but increase damage dealt toward hale on fire? That'd make this weapon a lot more useful for the airblast melee juggling.
Third Degree> I've been to a server where a medic healing someone using the third degree would get 10% charge per hit, it was fun. Maybe give it a passive effect for pyro like regenerate +1 health per second?
Powerjack> This used to be my main pyro melee before the 20% increased damage to user, as it was a viable weapon to go nut on hale with it to get enough overheal to tank a hit.
Homewrecker> regain +10 primary ammo per hit, again useful for juggling while not giving infinite ammo
Sharpened Volcano Fragment> I wanna be creative with this, not only is a hot Volcano fragment, but it's sharpened too! So maybe alongside igniting hale, it make hale bleed for 6 seconds. That way it's usable in areas with water where hale can extinguish himself.

Fourth class: Demoman
vsh hale catered this class hard, not only does he get full crits with a shield, but he has the fastest primary taunt out of all the other classes. This makes sticky demo viable with 300 damage per sticky. Hell, I went bottle screen demo and I got over 3k 4 times in one map. This class got everything, however, I do feel a bit sad for 3 specific weapons.

Demoman secondary:
The Chargen Targe> I'm pretty sure you all know how useless this this was before it obtained the fireproof buff, then we had to nerf it to break against lemons because Cave couldn't win anymore without 100% precision. So, I suggest two ideas that would make it possibly useful against any hale. 1) You can reset your heads count to gain back the shield if you have 4 or more heads and/or 2) A successful shield bash stuns hale for a few seconds. I'm not sure if either of them are plausable or balanced, but this thing really needs a buff.

Demoman melees:
The skullcutter> Sure you got a damage boost but hell if you'll be able to survive mano-y-mano against hale with that speed, so I suggest maybe allowing a shield an extra hit before it breaks.
The Caber> Few people can understand the excitement of performing a successful critical caber hit to hale, or even the rarer caber goomba. What I suggest so people can experience this is by adding a 100% self damage reduction to this behemoth, so that one attempt doesn't bring the player to less than half his health. Otherwise maybe allowing the caber to regenerate like the spy-cicle after 15 seconds.

Now, for a test idea, differentating the 2 primary shoes:
I think the wee booties should stay as is, while the bootleggers don't increase health, but increase movement speed by a bit and have a heavy reduction to fall damage. It'd be to allow 2 different types of playstyles to a demoknight.

5th class: Le Heavy
We already buffed most of his weaker items and now are a smash to use ^_^, honestly I think the buffalo steak is used much more than the sandvich now <_>
Yet, I still think the eviction notice needs a buff, and I think I came up with a really good idea for what it should be. It should work like the sniper's shahanahsah melee (does 50% less damage while above 50% health while doing 50% more damage while under 50% health) while keeping the high firing speed. It'd make for a great last stand against hale, choosing to fight with fists rather than standing in one spot shooting.

6th class: Engineer
I've had this idea for a long time after reading the unused stats on tf2wiki. Basically, this is a conceptual idea on allowing the...
Eureka Effect: (with these new stats)
- Can't carry buildings
- Builds Minisentries
+ Can place multiple sentries
- No teleport while taunting, but still get refreshed ammo and health (if possible)
- less metal in upgrading
- less metal in repairing

Also, maybe you guys can change the jag to actually have a +30% build rate instead of the current 15% bug.


I don't feel like talk about the last 3 classes in full detail yet (this post took 3 days to get completed with my attention), but I do have two suggestions for the sniper.

Sniper secondary:
Razorback> A long time ago in a distant land, I was told Voidy was attempting to make the razorback work like the demoman's shield for vsh, allowing the demo to take a hit. However it never happened so I suggest maybe if that isn't possible, make it so razorback users take 50% less melee damage.
Jarate> Jarate is practically useless with its 8% rage removal with its long reloading time and not showing whether you hit hale or not. So I suggest 2 alternate ideas:
1) reduce the rage removal to like 4% but let it have either more ammo/faster recharge rate. Gotta spam dem jars at hale
2) Instead of throwing jarate, you can make it so the sniper throws the loose cannon's cannonball at hale. It's actually very fun to do and adds a lot to what a sniper can do.

Please do give this a good read, and pose your own suggestions for weapon buffs and nerfs, someone should really sticky this topic V:

I know there was the weapon update and all but I was hoping someone would reply to my post within the 2 weeks it was up.

Also, the back scatter should do full crits from behind hale instead of mini-crits, if possible.

lonestar13m wrote Jun 29, 2014 11:30:33 PM View original post

I know there was the weapon update and all but I was hoping someone would reply to my post within the 2 weeks it was up.

- Scout is often a difficult class to deal damage without goomba stomps because you have to be up close to deal any real damage, and anywhere close to the boss is a risk for death or rage, which is why I keep a stock pistol for midrange poke.  Most servers make it only minicrit which is stupid though.

bfb- like turning it into a soda popper that gives speed boost instead of minicrits, would be an excellent change over nerfing to a stock reskin
soda popper - doesn't need to be changed
FaN - fyw even with -10% damage, it still does more total damage than stock (full crit for 196 instead of 180)  people usually use the FaN because it allows them to get a decent ammount of damage in without having to worry about dying from being too close, also escape potential, which is important for vsh
drinks - yknow goombas do crit if you use crit-a-cola, they do about 2000 instead of 1500, drinks don't need any changes
Fan o War - it does indeed reduce rage by 5% per hit, but the fact it seems to do nothing is because that 5% is replaced by 95 damage almost immediately, if it was 10% per hit that would feel OP cuz you could drain a rage meter in less than 5 seconds.
Wrap Assassin - the 2nd ball doesn't add much to damage, it only gives you a second chance, yet people always use them both in a burst and never correct their miss the 2nd time  it's a decent projectile weapon for melee if you don't want to sacrifice any other stats on your melee


reserve shooter - is it still 3 clip in vsh?? but yeah should be 4 otherwise
Equalizer - I'm pretty sure it does not give you any speed, but it does let you attack while stunned now


Pyro has always been more or less of a support class in vsh due to his natural inability to dish out a lot of damage to a single target without dying immediately.
You save lives with airblast, you save engineer buildings (at least until you get raged), too bad there's no bonus for these things.  You could be the crowd favorite with airblasting in the right locations, saving lives and getting them extra damage, but nothing to show for it on the scoreboard (I like to use scoreboard to gauge how well I'm doing :P)
I still want to push the +50 hp on Phlog idea though, will let them take a hit since Phlog isn't a support weapon (could even reduce healing taken if you're worried about overheal, which they still die in 2 hits anyway)


It's true, on servers without tauntcrits, the only viable classes are Demoknight, Spy, and heavy+medic and sometimes sniper.  The shield crit boost often makes demoman a primary damage class since he can pop out 1200 damage in 2 seconds then just charge away to reload.


Jag - is it even possible to make the wrench build with more than 25 metal at a time? imo that would really help the Jag's case if it used 34 metal instead of 25 (6 hits instead of 8


Razorback - guess it could work if it reduced melee damage taken by 45%, that way if you used bushwacka jump even once without a medic heal then you wouldn't have enough health to survived a hit since it'll still do around 110-111 damage per hit, and will still kill you in 2 hits if a medic is healing.  Right now it only really does just stop spy bosses who use a knife.
Jarate - here's a good way to take advantage of the 8% rage removal -- use it right before you think they're going to use rage, they'll be stuck with basic taunt, free to goomba, assuming soldier doesn't knock him out of it

lonestar13m wrote Jun 29, 2014 11:30:33 PM View original post

Also, the back scatter should do full crits from behind hale instead of mini-crits, if possible.

I like this

I've always wanted to see a buff for the Syringe Gun and Blutsauger, if only to give Medics a reason to not use the Crossbow.

A syringe jump could be useful, but I can't see that being easy to implement at all for the devs.

MintyFishbowl wrote Aug 2, 2014 5:27:03 AM View original post

I've always wanted to see a buff for the Syringe Gun and Blutsauger, if only to give Medics a reason to not use the Crossbow.

A syringe jump could be useful, but I can't see that being easy to implement at all for the devs.

Actually we doubled all medic uber gain from weapons, even the syringe gun which is now 10% per hit instead of 5%. (but its still pretty difficult to land 6 syringes out of 40 on a hale)

MintyFishbowl wrote Aug 2, 2014 5:27:03 AM View original post

I've always wanted to see a buff for the Syringe Gun and Blutsauger, if only to give Medics a reason to not use the Crossbow.

A syringe jump could be useful, but I can't see that being easy to implement at all for the devs.

Lunacy wrote Aug 2, 2014 6:16:55 AM View original post

Actually we doubled all medic uber gain from weapons, even the syringe gun which is now 10% per hit instead of 5%. (but its still pretty difficult to land 6 syringes out of 40 on a hale)

These are joke posts, right?

Wonder what medic would be like if syringe gun had 100% crits?  Hit efficiency would be like 1200 per clip but you're barely ever gonna hit unless Hale chases you while backpedaling.
Would give even more incentive to use syringes as an alternative to the damaging crossbow, but medic is for heals and ubers.  Seen a lot of medics not pop their ubers without even getting raged.