PropHunt 2.09 to 2.10 - What are the changes?

Like I said. Please feel free to find another server if our changes bug you that much.

It should be obvious that this has gotten to somewhere where this is not about choosing a server for my likings. So your answer has nothing to do with the discussion whatsoever, btw.

So, hold on, I'm a little confused. Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem here is that Saxton is making their own changes to their own server. Surely the whole point of modding is just that; making your own changes. And i'm sure if anyone approached Saxton about maybe using some of the changes here they would be welcome, correct?
I've talked to a couple of other servers admins/owners about possibly using some of saxton's plugins but they turned their nose up at it. Surely it is a matter of choice therefore and ultimately a choice of the server used. I find saxton rather 'unique' when it comes to prophunt compared to for example gamingmasters and all the other ones bar SourceOP who I believe have a rather 'primitive' ph mod installed. Again; it's a matter of choice as to whether you go there or not and it's their choice not to sort out some of the frankly 'clunky' gameplay mechanics that exist on that server.

I'd be interested to see what DarkImmortal, Powerlord etal's opinions of Saxton Hell's changes are and of the server in general. Maybe that might be a better starting place rather than here. Think of this analogy; bad / offensive service in a store checkout; do you make a scene at the checkout, or do you contact the manager?

This analogy is flawed. You should rather think of a reseller without any permission.
Also I have been on Prophunt Hell and have seen no changes so far. So I don't think there is any "superiority" compared to other server's using the prophunt plugin.

So Saxton Hell doesn't have permission to play around with it's own server?

That is still incorrectly understood. The issue would be in the license that says changes should a) be made public and b) not be used for own profit.
What is happening here is that code published under this license is modified (or just advertised to be) and exclusively used by a server of a 3rd party to make advantage of the original plugin to build a community upon it (and from that gain profit).

Alrighty, I think it's time to stop feeding the troll.

luvedragon wrote Oct 14, 2013 10:25:25 PM View original post

Alrighty, I think it's time to stop feeding the troll.

^_^ Seconded!

Ofc an admin disapproves but you should at least be objective enough to not accuse me of trolling and instead close this without any comment.
But hey, what to expect. oO

Unknown Haxor wrote Oct 14, 2013 10:23:37 PM View original post

That is still incorrectly understood. The issue would be in the license that says changes should a) be made public and b) not be used for own profit.
What is happening here is that code published under this license is modified (or just advertised to be) and exclusively used by a server of a 3rd party to make advantage of the original plugin to build a community upon it (and from that gain profit).

You may wish to review the GPL license. Here's a handy website for that: http://www.tldrlegal.com/license/gnu-general-public-license-v3-%28gpl-3%29

Additionally, the SM website contains a few FAQs about the license and derivative works (which prophunt is): http://www.sourcemod.net/license.php

That being said, the license quite clearly states that the source code only needs to be made available when the software is distributed. We're not distributing, so there is no legal requirement for me to disclose my changes or the code.

luvedragon wrote Oct 14, 2013 10:25:25 PM View original post

Alrighty, I think it's time to stop feeding the troll.

I could've told you that 8 posts ago. >_>

Marshii wrote Oct 14, 2013 9:57:07 PM View original post

So Saxton Hell doesn't have permission to play around with it's own server?

Saxton Hell can/should do what it wants, but it should drop the universal ranking system that ranked servers share, because they also share the same tune ups n shit. Its not fair to go to shitty free propmenu server and compare it to a "stock" ph server and compare it to a modified ph server like this one.

...this goes back to suggestion to drop the rankings, or stop tweaking the mod here.

VoiDeD wrote Oct 14, 2013 11:28:10 PM View original post

You may wish to review the GPL license. Here's a handy website for that: http://www.tldrlegal.com/license/gnu-general-public-license-v3-%28gpl-3%29

Additionally, the SM website contains a few FAQs about the license and derivative works (which prophunt is): http://www.sourcemod.net/license.php

That being said, the license quite clearly states that the source code only needs to be made available when the software is distributed. We're not distributing, so there is no legal requirement for me to disclose my changes or the code.

Judging by the "discussion" you've had with powerlord, the current maintainer of the plugin, on alliedmods (as far as I have read it), general opinion begs to differ. And so does the understanding of "distribution" in a juristic context. After all this plugin is made to distribute a special service which you offer by hosting it on your server. In a way you are a distributor.
Also (without knowing if and what the changes are) it's not a coincidence to set the version number just 0.01 up in comparison to the current branch (as you call it afaik). There's no denying that you did this on purpose. ;) The only question is with how much honor and honesty you're handling this.

Unknown Haxor wrote Oct 15, 2013 12:01:02 AM View original post

Judging by the "discussion" you've had with powerlord, the current maintainer of the plugin, on alliedmods (as far as I have read it), general opinion begs to differ. And so does the understanding of "distribution" in a juristic context. After all this plugin is made to distribute a special service which you offer by hosting it on your server. In a way you are a distributor.
Also (without knowing if and what the changes are) it's not a coincidence to set the version number just 0.01 up in comparison to the current branch (as you call it afaik). There's no denying that you did this on purpose. ;) The only question is with how much honor and honesty you're handling this.

Please stop putting words into our license's mouth. Using a plugin on a server in no way counts as distribution, and nothing illegal has been done here.

Unknown Haxor wrote Oct 15, 2013 12:01:02 AM View original post

Judging by the "discussion" you've had with powerlord, the current maintainer of the plugin, on alliedmods (as far as I have read it), general opinion begs to differ. And so does the understanding of "distribution" in a juristic context. After all this plugin is made to distribute a special service which you offer by hosting it on your server. In a way you are a distributor.
Also (without knowing if and what the changes are) it's not a coincidence to set the version number just 0.01 up in comparison to the current branch (as you call it afaik). There's no denying that you did this on purpose. ;) The only question is with how much honor and honesty you're handling this.

That's... Not how it works at all. But hey, it's totally okay to be confused about software license legalese! It's a tricky subject that requires years and years of study and practice.

I think, in honor of your efforts here on our forums, I'll bump up our version number again just because. Because you're absolutely correct. I bump the version on purpose. That's the neat thing about the SM license, I can bump the version as much as I like.

Edit: Before anyone takes this seriously, the last sentence was an attempt at comedy.