Weapons suggestions general

[Shae]

I guess we should have a thread here to suggest/complain about the current weapon that Saxton Hale mode makes changes to. (Like how any medigun is switched to a Customized Kritzkrieg that gives crits, 140% ubercharge and invulnerability.

Have stat suggestions, post em here.

First things first: the /HaleClass command should be updated, not all of the latest weapon changes are noted in that command's menu.

Second:
Gloves of running Urgently
>Marked for death upon use
>-7 damage per half second during use. (Hell it used to be -6 damage per half second before valve updated it.)

Choose one voidy.

Also whats the story behind the cowmangler. Any damage you deal with that weapon can be dealt twice as much with any other rocket launcher. Sure the reload time and the 4 shot charge update is good, but in a game mode that relies on more damage-oriented gameplay there is no point in using it. Any updates/buffs planned for this weapon? Because it seems like it has a lot of unneeded buffs for this specific gamemode. Full crit or damage boost pls.

[Windy]

Second:
Gloves of running Urgently
>Marked for death upon use

Blame Valve®™ for making it hard to fix this

Also whats the story behind the cowmangler. Any damage you deal with that weapon can be dealt twice as much with any other rocket launcher. Sure the reload time and the 4 shot charge update is good, but in a game mode that relies on more damage-oriented gameplay there is no point in using it. Any updates/buffs planned for this weapon? Because it seems like it has a lot of unneeded buffs for this specific gamemode. Full crit or damage boost pls.

Full crits can't be put on the cow mangler, it simply does not work®™. We already have rocket launchers that have have a small blast radius and one with faster rockets, so I propose making the Cow Mangler's blast radius bigger, and maybe giving it mini-crits.

[crab]

Also whats the story behind the cowmangler.

the soldier found a mad scientist and the scientist gave the soldier the mangler and said "test it out for me"
but seriously
you could say it's more durable than the stock, but that in exchange for high damage is not a good tradeoff since lots of maps give out ammo like candy

Cow Mangler...giving it mini-crits.

doesn't it have guaranteed minicrits already

[Shae]

doesn't it have guaranteed minicrits already

Nope. Used to I think.

Any plans for weapons at all in the upcoming weeks? Or in general? I'm starting to feel bad about starting a weapons suggestion thread and valve making it hard to change the specs of certain weapons.

Will the /haleclass command be updated with the latest weapon changes at least?

[VoiDeD]

Will the /haleclass command be updated with the latest weapon changes at least?

At this point the code changes are really far ahead of what's displayed for /haleclass that it'll be a pain to look through all the changes to make sure everything is listed.

Generally /halenew covers most (if not all) weapon changes.

[Shae]

At this point the code changes are really far ahead of what's displayed for /haleclass that it'll be a pain to look through all the changes to make sure everything is listed.

Generally /halenew covers most (if not all) weapon changes.

:/
Shit, well i have to scroll through all that. Oh well, danke anyways.

[Lunacy]

I still feel like giving +50 health to the phlog, the only reason pyros stay alive is with airblasts or flare jumping early.  Phlog pyros are often useless and unhelpful and die almost immediately. (sometimes i try not to kill them to give them a chance at worthwhile damage)

Idc bout this one but fan o war reduces rage by 5% a hit? and hale gains about 5% for every 95 damage taken, it's not worth the risk of being that close just to reduce a slim bit of rage, 10-15% a hit might seem OP being able to deplete rage completely in 10-7 hits but honestly when does scout get more than 1 or 2 consecutive melee hits before being killed?

The Conniver's Kunai would be much more worth using if you could overheal over 200 instead of 180 (maybe something like 250 hp on stab) since you can barely survive a hit even with the dead ringer, usually slim chance to survive with just 60 hp.

I dunno about anything else, everything else seems fine and reasonably buffed.

[Miaumon]

Would anyone be opposed to the "Liberty Launcher" be reverted back to the full damage, 3 rocket version. rather than the new 4-rocket version. I have noticed a big drop in people who use it, that might just be on the part people realized the default is overall better but this is just skepticism.

[lonestar13m]

Would anyone be opposed to the "Liberty Launcher" be reverted back to the full damage, 3 rocket version. rather than the new 4-rocket version.

I personally would love the Liberty Launcher to be reverted back to it's original ways, as it was just great.



I also have a few ideas I've been meaning to mention after being on Saxton Hell this past year (started december something), and these ideas are for weapons and just don't get as much use as other weapons that are promoted by everyone else.

First and foremost, I'd like to discuss a number of heavy's weapons, as he has a lot more variety than the Tomislav/Sandvich/GoRU everyone recommends. Starting it off is a personal favorite of mine:

Eviction Notice
Current Stats:
+ Full crits
+ 50% firing speed
- 60% damage penalty

Suggested Stats to be added:
+ 10, 15, or 20 HP healed per hit
+ can over heal to 350 HP
and/or
+ 10% speed while deployed

Reasoning why: I love charging at hale with a melee, and I love trying to beat a shirtless muscular Australian with giant Russian hands, but there isn't a low enough morality rate to confidently do it by myself, even with a sandvich in hand. And nobody wants to attempt it when your outputting less damage than the usual stock, even with a faster firing speed. Heck, the GoRU hits harder than these while giving the heavy a speed boost at the cost of health. With these new changes, it offers players to get a chance to put hurt on hale without feeling defenseless if their main weapons runs out of ammo. Plus, this really wouldn't overpower hale at all as it requires skill to rack up enough health without dying to hale's own fist.

Next weapon on the list: The forgotten shotgun

The Family Business
Current stats:
minicrits
+ 33% clip size
- 15% damage

Suggested stats:
+ 33% clip size
- 20% damage
+ 60% more accurate
+ 15% reload speed
+ 5% firing speed

Reasoning why: Very few player wanted to take part in the family business, especially when its a very sloppy business. With less damage than the stock shotgun and no healing capabilities towards the player or others, I myself would advise others to look past the "pros" of this gun. In order to make this gun more appealing of use, the gun should have a faster reload/shooting speed that differentiates away from the traditionally shotty. And if you really want to help out others, you wanna be able to hinder hale as much as you can, so with that 60% accuracy comes a better knockback when dealing with airborn hales. Now to ensure this gun doesn't surpass the original shotgun + enrage hales, a higher damage reduction is suggested.

and of the second secondary I'd like to discuss is the...

Buffalo Steak Sandvich.
Current Stats:
I honestly have no idea what this item does in vsh other than limit weapon use to melee only, increased damage intake, ability to heal others, and a faster speed.

Suggested Stats if possible:
+ Remove restriction to melee only
+ ignore move speed reduction with deployed minigun
+ 5% damage intake
+ 10% move speed
and/or
- remove ability to heal others directly
+ a shorter cocheror effect within a radius of the heavy

Reasoning: I rarely (pun not intended) see usage of this item in Saxton Hell, not only because of melee's full crit status, but of an increase in damage intake. Again, I honestly am not sure how this items works in vsh but nobody uses it, so I thought up of new stats to it that would seem a bit more appealing. Basically the BSS needs an upgrade but take my suggested stats with a grain of salt.

and with my final weapon suggestion for the heavy is the overlooked primary...

The Huo-Long Heater
Current Stats:
+ Hell's a blazing from the minigun
+ 6 ammo per second while hell is blazing

Suggested stats to be added:
+ 2 or 3 ammo for each successful hit on hale
+ Heavy can absorb fire damage as ammo
+ 10% faster movespeed while minigun is spinning
+ 33% afterburn damage
and/or
+15% accurate firing

Reasoning why: The ring of fire is cute when trying to prevent spies from attacking, but big Australian men don't care much of the minor inconvenience of afterburn. And when that inconvenient afterburn takes up most of the ammo, the only thing heavies can do is sit his butt at a dispenser if he wants to keep his minigun going. So offer an incentive of using the gun, best looking option is a sort of ammo regeneration to keep the minigun going longer. The added speed is to have the heavy maximize the effectiveness of the the flames by being a bit more dodgy.

That's all I have to say for the heavy class, these weapons if boosted properly could add a lot more variety and fun when it comes to being the heavy, a class that only the experienced can really do something with him, (except of Wingsfield, he cheats and should probably be banned forever for being a terrible person to medics on his own team :I )

Comments, Criticism, something to tell me that adding stats to weapons is harder than it sounds would be most welcome. I really do hope voicing my opinions here/the forum could help make some good changes.

[BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo]

The Huo-Long Heater
Current Stats:
+ Hell's a blazing from the minigun
+ 6 ammo per second while hell is blazing

Suggested stats to be added:
+ 2 or 3 ammo for each successful hit on hale
+ Heavy can absorb fire damage as ammo
+ 10% faster movespeed while minigun is spinning
+ 33% afterburn damage
and/or
+15% accurate firing

um in vsh cave is the only hale that does fire damage, and in ff2 we have like the rocket, cave, and mtp but really absord fire damage as ammo not possible at all.(did u get that from borderlands with the one shield that absorbs damage and put it in ur ammo?). Huo-long does 3 ammo when spinning up 10% more movement speed is kinda not need on my side,(hey atleast this isnt vsponyville 75% movement when spinning up mini guns, with kgb heavies taking 96 damage and doing 360 with 20+ hp on hit)but the after burn damage should be 50% like flare gun

[VoiDeD]

The problem with some of these suggestions are the "per-hit" bonuses. Most good heavies can consistently get hits on hale which would (depending on the buff) either give the player essentially infinite ammo or infinite health.

As for the rest, I'll defer to Miaumon as he's generally the one who deals with balancing suggestions.

[lonestar13m]

The problem with some of these suggestions are the "per-hit" bonuses. Most good heavies can consistently get hits on hale which would (depending on the buff) either give the player essentially infinite ammo or infinite health.

In my defense of the per-hit ammo bonus, it was only directed for the huo-long heater, which loses ammo much more rapidly than the other miniguns. the per-hit bonus isn't supposed to give the heavy unlimited ammo but just to make the heater last longer. For the per hit health bonus, demoknights essentially have infinite HP using the eyelander/half-zat. Plus even at 20 HP per hit, the player would have to hit hale at least 11 times to survive another punch. Sure maybe cave is a bit under the bus but he still has rage.

@ Bobobo: The fire absorb thing was kinda over the top, but it was my own idea.

*pokes Miaumon with the stick of truth*

[crab]

For the per hit health bonus, demoknights essentially have infinite HP using the eyelander/half-zat

You missed the fact that you need to have hit hale 4 times (2 if you're using booties) otherwise you'll die from a single punch and if you aren't using booties you're going to die from the devastating 1-foot fall after getting punched. If you are using booties, that means you're restricted to melee which makes it that much easier to get you killed.
And the zatoichi here is garbage so it's not worth mentioning :o)

[BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo]

well the huo long uses 3 ammo when spinning up so u are firing rounds and loosing 3 ammo that is ok but in-game of vavle servers 6 ammo waste for spin up is wasting ammo huo long is for people who know to use mini guns and spy check with it.

[Miaumon]

Eviction Notice:
+ 10, 15, or 20 HP healed per hit
+ can over heal to 350 HP
and/or
+ 10% speed while deployed

The HP would be a bit useless since it just takes 2 hits to die
The speed would make the GRU pointless if you could just use this

The Family Business
+ 33% clip size
- 20% damage
+ 60% more accurate
+ 15% reload speed
+ 5% firing speed

Would make the stock shotgun pointless if you can reload it faster and do damage from a range.

Buffalo Steak Sandvich.

There is no real way for us to do any of this
 

The Huo-Long Heater
Current Stats:
+ Hell's a blazing from the minigun
+ 6 ammo per second while hell is blazing

Suggested stats to be added:
+ 2 or 3 ammo for each successful hit on hale
+ Heavy can absorb fire damage as ammo
+ 10% faster movespeed while minigun is spinning
+ 33% afterburn damage
and/or
+15% accurate firing

This would become the charge and targe of the heavy, meaning you use it against cave and switch afterwards. The fire does very little damage as is so I decided before just to leave it as is.

But I kind of like the idea of the heavy moving a bit quicker while it is spun up, also we knocked it down to 3 ammo per second when it first came out.


IMO
The Huo-Long Heater - Make you move faster while spun up
Buffalo steak - Damage reduction 50%? would make medic heavy combos stronger but it wears off after 7 seconds anyways, Would still have melee only.
not even sure we can do that one.
The Family Business - Slightly more accurate and shoots a bit faster
Eviction Notice - no fucking clue