OP Weapons/ suggested weapon changes.

Problem is that there are often lips or gaps which would stop the progression using melee.

Marshii wrote Jan 29, 2013 1:46:52 AM View original post

Problem is that there are often lips or gaps which would stop the progression using melee.

Welcome to jump maps.

Fair enough :/ I haven't ventured that far afield yet. I assume then that you're saying snipes etc can ride up a wall and have a sort of 'sticky' period where they have time to jump in any direction to reach another wall?

That would be a good addition and would mean that more classes are a viable option other than purely strategic reasons eg Engi Dispencer etc

Marshii wrote Jan 29, 2013 2:09:24 PM View original post

Fair enough :/ I haven't ventured that far afield yet. I assume then that you're saying snipes etc can ride up a wall and have a sort of 'sticky' period where they have time to jump in any direction to reach another wall?

That would be a good addition and would mean that more classes are a viable option other than purely strategic reasons eg Engi Dispencer etc

The way the sniper jump works on the jump maps is it pushes you up and slightly away from the wall. You can then air strafe back to the wall and melee it again to jump up more. You can also air strafe around ledges and corners if you need to.

Also, I disagree that having a dispenser is strategic. :(

Surely the location of the dispencer is strategic? (I play alot of rts games so I think about this kind of thing) For instance you dont want to put it next to other health packs or ammo packs, no do you want to put it right next to the CP, you want to try to combine this with obstructing a props movement while being in an easily accessible place for hunters (RTS nerd out over) :P

Shooter` wrote Jan 29, 2013 7:15:33 PM View original post

Also, I disagree that having a dispenser is strategic. :(

Of course it is. 


PH in general is not played as a team mode, most people just mindlessly go after kills and it makes it a really shallow mode.  That said if you play engie as a support class rather than a hunter not only is it more fun, but it's a lot more interesting.  It is the biggest problem with PH imo, people who just tryhard for kills.

When I play engie I usually pick a spot where props most often run to when being chased, set up my dispenser in the best spot to block or slow them down, and not really go for kills....just sort of funnel the props to my teammates and assist when I can.  If there isn't much traffic I just start clearing the bottom floor usually with my melee.




Turning the engie into a hunting class by giving him some sort of jump is a bad idea imo.  I would rather see a Short Circuit that slows props when hit, we have enough hunting classes, we need at least 1 good support class.  And because engie wouldnt get many kills doing this it wouldn't upset the rankings or anything by changing one of the classes and there isn't a need to balance the Short Circuit because the metal cost is insane already. 




Bushwacka jumping and slow effect on the Short Circuit.


Pwwweeeaaaassssseeeeee...?  We need at least 1 blu support class.

Marshii wrote Jan 29, 2013 8:11:22 PM View original post

Surely the location of the dispencer is strategic? (I play alot of rts games so I think about this kind of thing) For instance you dont want to put it next to other health packs or ammo packs, no do you want to put it right next to the CP, you want to try to combine this with obstructing a props movement while being in an easily accessible place for hunters (RTS nerd out over) :P

I suppose that placing the dispenser in order to provide optimal health and ammo is a strategic part of engie play, however it's not necessary. If you want to figure out the best places to put your dispenser, be my guest. I'm sure the rest of the BLU team will thank you. I simply find it unnecessary - it's faster in 100% of cases to kill a prop and get health or find a health pack. Also, most maps have enough metal that finding ammo isn't much of a problem but on the other one - I'm looking at you, CCHotel - a dispenser can be kind of nice.

That being said, I'm still of the opinion that using a building to either completely block access or trap a prop in an area is griefing. If you want to block one door of a two door house, good job. If you want to use your dispenser + yourself to completely block off access to an area or trap a prop inside you're no better in my mind than someone who wants to hide under the map or ghost people. Not that I necessarily think either of those is wrong but they're against the rules or something.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 29, 2013 8:57:44 PM View original post

PH in general is not played as a team mode, most people just mindlessly go after kills and it makes it a really shallow mode.  That said if you play engie as a support class rather than a hunter not only is it more fun, but it's a lot more interesting.  It is the biggest problem with PH imo, people who just tryhard for kills.

Why should it be a team mode? Right now, it works like any other pub. Sure, there's a team but everyone either lone wolfs or works in small groups with friends. If I can get more points than the rest of my team put together on a pretty consistent basis why should I rely on them to be a team with me? As the skill level of ph in general goes up - instead of having 90%+ not really know what they're doing, 9% pretty decent - maybe played for a week or so, and 1% roll over everyone else - there will be more incentive to work as a team.

Besides, I get rewarded individually in the form of rank points, scoreboard points, and speed boosts. Why do I want to share those with other people?

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 29, 2013 8:57:44 PM View original post

When I play engie I usually pick a spot where props most often run to when being chased, set up my dispenser in the best spot to block or slow them down, and not really go for kills....just sort of funnel the props to my teammates and assist when I can.  If there isn't much traffic I just start clearing the bottom floor usually with my melee.

Remember, the people that you're funnelling to will, in the majority of cases, not be able to hit a prop that knows what the space bar is.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 29, 2013 8:57:44 PM View original post

Turning the engie into a hunting class by giving him some sort of jump is a bad idea imo.  I would rather see a Short Circuit that slows props when hit, we have enough hunting classes, we need at least 1 good support class.  And because engie wouldnt get many kills doing this it wouldn't upset the rankings or anything by changing one of the classes and there isn't a need to balance the Short Circuit because the metal cost is insane already. 

Bushwacka jumping and slow effect on the Short Circuit.

No. NO. Nononononono.

Think. Besides hiding, what is the ONLY thing that RED has to protect themselves from BLU?

Their movement.

Why do you think people hate miniguns besides the high damage output? Why do you think airblast is disabled? They both hinder or completely deny the scout's movement. Imagine prop hunt if once a scout was found, they couldn't move. Who would play? 3 minutes of respawn after a shot bit hiding? Boring.

Dude, how many keyboards did you just go through typing all that?  lol



To sum up your post, you like points and don't care about it being team oriented.  Fair enough but that is extremely boring to all of us who don't care about rank, those of us who just play for fun.  Also the Short Circuit has a small range and heavy ammo cost, to try and say it would be OP is silly.  Like 43 clowns climbing out of a VW Bug silly.  Stop being silly Shooter...STOP IT! 


Also it would be entirely optional class, you realize that right?  Keep playing pyro all you want, but team players want to have something to do too.  I honestly don't even like hunting, especially as a pyro.  And if another hunter can't finish the job when you slow a prop down good for the prop, another reason why it wouldn't be OP.  Also the slow down wouldn't need to be set to a billion, you could set it low enough though for pyros without a kill to catch up to it or soldiers who are slow as balls anyway.  Engie with a Short Circuit = one less pyro chasing the prop btw.


If you honestly think adding a slowdown to the Short Circuit would make it boring...here's some bad news.  There are a big group of people who play for rank and basically just to win, that's fine.  For me, boring is being killed in literally 1 second by a degreaser+axe or flare.  Boring is also only being able to hunt and not even given another option.  Boring is anything resembling tryhardness.  I grew out of that with COD4 lol.  Not that I mind any of this, I'm only pointing out that your way of playing bores me as much as I'm sure mine bores you.  But that doesn't mean I shouldn't have the option to play the way I want.  And neither should you.  Assuming obviously it doesn't unbalance everything, which I don't think it would.

And most importantly, the biggest defense tool in PH isn't running away...it's hiding well.  Which is the entire point.


/insanely long post

Completely agreed 9mm - Hunters should be able to play as they should.
I don't think the idea of short circuit slowing down props is a good idea simply because the basis of putting it in would be to give the engie more of a chance - this is all well and good until you get to the fact that there is rarely just an engie on the server against props. Most people, tryhards or not will try and steal kills, its what people do. So if ALL engies dont mind having their kills stolen and ALL props dont mind being stuck in the mind then it's a good idea but I think as it stands the engie would be irritating while pyros exploit the reduced movement.

I guess it could be experimented with but I think slowing movement is dodgy, miniguns are cope-with-able in that while they push you away with knock back you can still escape them. Slowing movement would make this obsolete entirely. Short Circuit with knock back could be something to look into though. I have never used the SC so I dont know what it does / what its stats are so forgive for not knowing why it isnt in the game mode already.

Just to be clear though, and despite my epic poem of a post, I don't really care either way about the short circuit specifically.  I just wish there was a way to play prophunt that wasn't entirely chasing and killing the props.  It just gets a bit boring.  The great thing about VSH is that there are tons of options as to how to play.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 30, 2013 12:42:36 AM View original post

Dude, how many keyboards did you just go through typing all that?  lol

I like how the beginning of every one of your posts is an insult. Really gets people to like you. Not to mention your post is longer than my last one. :)

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 30, 2013 12:42:36 AM View original post

To sum up your post, you like points and don't care about it being team oriented.  Fair enough but that is extremely boring to all of us who don't care about rank, those of us who just play for fun.  Also the Short Circuit has a small range and heavy ammo cost, to try and say it would be OP is silly.  Like 43 clowns climbing out of a VW Bug silly.  Stop being silly Shooter...STOP IT!

I'm not sure where you got that from my post. I'm pretty sure I never I said I like it that way - that's just how it is right now. Not to mention this notion that I never have fun when I'm playing.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 30, 2013 12:42:36 AM View original post

Also it would be entirely optional class, you realize that right?  Keep playing pyro all you want, but team players want to have something to do too.  I honestly don't even like hunting, especially as a pyro.  And if another hunter can't finish the job when you slow a prop down good for the prop, another reason why it wouldn't be OP.  Also the slow down wouldn't need to be set to a billion, you could set it low enough though for pyros without a kill to catch up to it or soldiers who are slow as balls anyway.  Engie with a Short Circuit = one less pyro chasing the prop btw.

If a prop gets slowed down they're as good as dead. Anything less than a 2 speed boost pyro is as good as useless unless there's no way a pyro can get two speed boosts. It might not be unbalanced but for the ONE prop that you manage to get throughtout the whole round, they have little to no chance.

OH WAIT, you could just sit on the control point and deny it better than anything else.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 30, 2013 12:42:36 AM View original post

If you honestly think adding a slowdown to the Short Circuit would make it boring...here's some bad news.  There are a big group of people who play for rank and basically just to win, that's fine.  For me, boring is being killed in literally 1 second by a degreaser+axe or flare.  Boring is also only being able to hunt and not even given another option.  Boring is anything resembling tryhardness.  I grew out of that with COD4 lol.  Not that I mind any of this, I'm only pointing out that your way of playing bores me as much as I'm sure mine bores you.  But that doesn't mean I shouldn't have the option to play the way I want.  And neither should you.  Assuming obviously it doesn't unbalance everything, which I don't think it would.

1) You don't have to try hard to be good, nor does trying hard rule out having fun.
2) You can dodge flares. Short circuit is hitscan.
3) I'm right there with you on the axe.
4) You DO have the option to play the way you want - I'm not sure where I'm denying you that. However, with the current config, it's not possible to slow people down using the short circuit and it's not possible for you to play that way.
5) Your way of playing doesn't bore me in the slightest. If I want to win something I'll play PH or a lobby, and you not trying at all doesn't hinder me from doing that at all.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 30, 2013 12:42:36 AM View original post

And most importantly, the biggest defense tool in PH isn't running away...it's hiding well.  Which is the entire point.

There's a reason that you don't get permanently frozen when you prop lock. You have two ways to prevent dying - hiding is the first and running the second. Hiding might prevent you from dying longer but if you don't run when you're found you're sure to die.

Marshii wrote Jan 30, 2013 1:13:11 AM View original post

Completely agreed 9mm - Hunters should be able to play as they should.
I don't think the idea of short circuit slowing down props is a good idea simply because the basis of putting it in would be to give the engie more of a chance - this is all well and good until you get to the fact that there is rarely just an engie on the server against props. Most people, tryhards or not will try and steal kills, its what people do. So if ALL engies dont mind having their kills stolen and ALL props dont mind being stuck in the mind then it's a good idea but I think as it stands the engie would be irritating while pyros exploit the reduced movement.

I guess it could be experimented with but I think slowing movement is dodgy, miniguns are cope-with-able in that while they push you away with knock back you can still escape them. Slowing movement would make this obsolete entirely. Short Circuit with knock back could be something to look into though. I have never used the SC so I dont know what it does / what its stats are so forgive for not knowing why it isnt in the game mode already.

I agree, and I also fail to see how I'm preventing you from playing the way you want. You seem to play more or less the same way I do but less efficiently. If the way I play prevents you from playing the way you want to play, somehow, sorry but go find another server.

9mmpainpill wrote Jan 30, 2013 1:29:44 AM View original post

Just to be clear though, and despite my epic poem of a post, I don't really care either way about the short circuit specifically.  I just wish there was a way to play prophunt that wasn't entirely chasing and killing the props.  It just gets a bit boring.  The great thing about VSH is that there are tons of options as to how to play.

There are ways to play that don't involve chasing or killing the props. You can place a dispenser for your team as engie or stand around pointing them out with calls of "SPY!" (Although you'd be risking a ban. I'm not sure anyone's been banned for being pseudo friendly alone yet, but it is technically against the rules.) The problem is with the way the game mode is designed. Hale doesn't have a time limit after which the non-hales lose. Medic can heal people and spy isn't banned. There isn't a huge ban list. Currently chasing and killing the props is the best way because it ends the round the fastest. Either way, I can't think of a whole lot of possible support type roles although I think it would be really neat if the medic could heal given the medigun damaged him more than his passive health regeneration heals him.

Shooter` wrote Jan 30, 2013 1:45:50 AM View original post

I like how the beginning of every one of your posts is an insult. Really gets people to like you. Not to mention your post is longer than my last one. :)

I'm not sure where you got that from my post. I'm pretty sure I never I said I like it that way - that's just how it is right now. Not to mention this notion that I never have fun when I'm playing.

If a prop gets slowed down they're as good as dead. Anything less than a 2 speed boost pyro is as good as useless unless there's no way a pyro can get two speed boosts. It might not be unbalanced but for the ONE prop that you manage to get throughtout the whole round, they have little to no chance.

OH WAIT, you could just sit on the control point and deny it better than anything else.


1) You don't have to try hard to be good, nor does trying hard rule out having fun.
2) You can dodge flares. Short circuit is hitscan.
3) I'm right there with you on the axe.
4) You DO have the option to play the way you want - I'm not sure where I'm denying you that. However, with the current config, it's not possible to slow people down using the short circuit and it's not possible for you to play that way.
5) Your way of playing doesn't bore me in the slightest. If I want to win something I'll play PH or a lobby, and you not trying at all doesn't hinder me from doing that at all.


There's a reason that you don't get permanently frozen when you prop lock. You have two ways to prevent dying - hiding is the first and running the second. Hiding might prevent you from dying longer but if you don't run when you're found you're sure to die.

Everything looks like an insult to someone with no sense of humor.  Which is my smartass way of saying...I wasn't trying to insult anyone.


But if you aren't happy about it why are you arguing about it at all?  Why not just suggest something else?  My entire point was that the server only has 1 option on blu, hunt and kill, anything else is considered banworthy by the admins. 

And if a "prop gets slowed down he's dead"....that's kind of the point.  Having an engie item that slows down (doesn't have to be short circuit ovbiously) it is still less powerful than any pyro loadout which can kill almost instantly.  I honestly don't even know what your point is here, if it is that the short circuit isn't a good idea to give slowdown, fine.  If it is that any sort of slowdown will break the game, that's clearly wrong, anything can be balanced.  If it is that there should only be 1 objective for blu team, to kill...then fine but that is boring. 




Please though, if you respond say something less argumentative.  It's a suggestion thread, not a "argue anytime someone suggests something that would effect the way I play" thread.  Actually scratch that, to be honest I never cared about this anyway, I just wanted to suggest something to try out because I was getting bored with PH.  Do whatever you want, I couldn't give 2 shits.  I would rather have an inch long zit on the middle of my ballsack than continue talking with you about this. And for the record, THAT is what an insult looks like.  lol




And in case you were wondering, yes, this is just me being a smartass again lol, no need to take it personally.

9mm, while I agree with plenty of things you're saying, I think you're overusing the "tryhard" term a bit. Killing every prop you find isn't necessarily being tryhard - it's playing the game the way it's meant to be played, something it seems people tend to forget. Sure I spend most of my rounds these days playing as soldier or heavy or some other class where I'm not really trying much, but there's nothing wrong with a person like Shooter or box or anyone else who just plays to kill props. The ranking system may affect it, and I think taking it away would change the game some, but at the end of the day you can still press Tab and look at the scoreboard, and there aren't many people who wouldn't get satisfaction from being at the top.

short circuit slowing is bad idea 2/10 do not want
and i use engi