Saxton Hell Forums

Server Discussion => PropHunt Hell => Topic started by: box on April 20, 2013, 08:43:12 pm

Title: Removing Kakariko
Post by: box on April 20, 2013, 08:43:12 pm
Anybody else? Same reason its been removed on other servers in the past: too big, way too much time, clears out servers.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: milligraham on April 20, 2013, 09:59:42 pm
Personally I love the map. Yes it's big and the round times are very long, but there are reasons why many people, including myself like it. I used to really dislike kakariko until I realized that it is easily one of the funnest maps for rocket jumping and for running as a prop. Kakariko is probably one of the better maps for both of these playstyles even though it is a lot different than most prop hunt maps. As for the idea of clearing out servers I would have to disagree. Of course there are people who hate the map, but lots of people enjoy kakariko. It definitely doesnt have the server clearing ability that cyberpunk and medieval have.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: box on April 20, 2013, 10:18:12 pm
Tru, bofa cyber n medieval suck more. Even tearin that map up like I did, still not a fan of kaka. Kaka means shit.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Dr.PanCakes on April 20, 2013, 10:22:08 pm
How bout no!, He awn da roof.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Kayoh on April 20, 2013, 10:24:16 pm
I personally like the map. It's wide open, and ideal for running around, but at the same still has plenty of places to hide so it isn't just a running map. The only complaint about it I might have is it has a LOT of health spawns, and in such a prop can run near infinitely if they know when and where to jump, but besides that, I really like it.

Edit: Typo'd. Oops.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: HipsterGlaceon on April 21, 2013, 12:05:17 am
Kakariko is fun.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on April 21, 2013, 04:44:54 am
PLESE REDE <<<<<<<<
ALMOST EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM IS A REGULAR AND THEY ARE BIASED BECAUSE THEY :
1. ARE NOOBS
2. ARE SCRUBS
3. THEY LIKE BAD MAPS
4. THEY ALL ROCKET JUMP, SO OF COURSE THEY LIKE A MAP WHERE THEY CAN JUMP AROUND
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on April 21, 2013, 04:47:03 am
i am in favour of removing kakariko
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on April 21, 2013, 01:40:52 pm
I am also of the opinion of removing Kakriko.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Shooter` on April 21, 2013, 04:31:30 pm
I like kakariko but I think the round times are too long.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on April 22, 2013, 04:57:26 am
I think that Kakariko is good and it should be left in, it encourages many play styles, a range of classes and a variety of running routes and temporary hiding spots. With a worked out path through the map I can usually have it covered within half of the round time though, I think maybe 30s to a minute off the timer would be good. Many times the last prop is left with 2 minutes to survive :P
The only class I can think of which is at a disadvantage in Kaka is the Engie unless you have a really competent engie since all they will do is run around shotgunning as support and unlike the other classes they don't really have all the many routes up on to the rooftops whereas Demos have stickies, Soldiers have jumps and pyros have flying. Snipers I think are similar in this regard, but if you get a skilled sniper they can tear that place up.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: HipsterGlaceon on April 22, 2013, 11:24:46 am
I like kakariko but I think the round times are too long.

60 seconds off that timer would be helpful.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: box on April 22, 2013, 01:38:16 pm
Alright, but consider this: you remove 30sec - 1min of time, and now props definitely are winning all the time.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Shooter` on April 22, 2013, 05:52:10 pm
Removing 30 seconds: No difference.

Removing 1 minute: Maybe props win too much now. It can be tuned.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on April 22, 2013, 06:06:21 pm
I think the biggest issue is the sheer amount of health packs that allow props to be able run around and survive as long as they do. The longer time does make it so props will be found at some point, but if you're left with one or two people who know where to run, it can take the entire round to finish them off. Even if you do try to cut a prop off, there's bound to be two or three other health packs in the general area, making it a bit more unpredictable. Whether or not this was the map maker's intention, I do not know.

It's not a bad map, but these two things put together (time & health packs) just kinda ruin it. Maybe if anyone knows the map maker, see if they could revise the map a bit?
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on April 23, 2013, 12:08:35 pm
actually if you look closely you will see that it is a bad map
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Clownophobia on June 30, 2013, 07:07:12 pm
I personally like Kakariko 'cause it's the only map where you can actually try to learn controling and surviving with your scout.
Although, I think people just wants it to be removed 'cause we play it too much. Just when it comes available it's nominated and voted.
Maybe we should just calm down and not hype it so much?
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on June 30, 2013, 07:09:48 pm
I personally like Kakariko 'cause it's the only map where you can actually try to learn controling and surviving with your scout.
That's the problem though. It's far too easy for a halfway decent runner to survive the entire round just running in circles. Not to mention the over abundance of health.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: box on July 01, 2013, 02:08:37 am
I personally like Kakariko 'cause it's the only map where you can actually try to learn controling and surviving with your scout.

If you think that's the only map where you can try to learn surviving with your scout, then you either aren't playing the mod right or just not playing it well.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 01, 2013, 04:55:09 am
@Box, or maybe just playing their own style.
@ Blaku, maybe we could do things like camping the health packs and working together as a group. Too often with the last prop on Kaka there is complete chaos and disorganisation with a bunch of hunters running and shooting in the prop's general direction.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 01, 2013, 05:57:45 am
nice necropost
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 01, 2013, 05:58:39 am
@ Blaku, maybe we could do things like camping the health packs and working together as a group. Too often with the last prop on Kaka there is complete chaos and disorganisation with a bunch of hunters running and shooting in the prop's general direction.
a map should not required people to use teamwork to win. that shows just how completely unbalanced kakariko is, and why it should be removed.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: HipsterGlaceon on July 01, 2013, 06:00:09 am
a map should not required people to use teamwork to win. that shows just how completely unbalanced kakariko is, and why it should be removed.

Let's not have TEAMwork in TEAM Fortress 2, right?
Your move.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 01, 2013, 06:00:49 am
FFA Prophunt ftw!

New mode - Trouble in PropHunt Town 2013
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 01, 2013, 06:02:18 am
I'm just saying that if kakariko requires blu to try use teamwork to win, it's probably unbalanced. You don't see people on farm feud blocking health packs as a team because it's so hard to find props, do you?
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: HipsterGlaceon on July 01, 2013, 06:04:05 am
I'm just saying that if kakariko requires blu to try use teamwork to win, it's probably unbalanced. You don't see people on farm feud blocking health packs as a team because it's so hard to find props, do you?

Let's just compare a kiddie pool to an Olympic pool in terms of size and call one unbalanced.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 01, 2013, 06:04:30 am
Farm feud      ------------       Kaka

2 mins round time --- 4 mins round time
2 health packs  --------- over 9000 health packs
Tiny Map ----------------------- Huge-ass map


There's your answer
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 01, 2013, 06:29:29 am
That isn't changing the fact that you're saying this map can require teamwork to win. There is no other map that requires specific teamwork to win against the props.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 01, 2013, 06:36:14 am
As I say , invent FFA prop hunt, then return.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 01, 2013, 10:55:01 am
Generally speaking, prophunt isn't a mod that requires teamwork. People want to get the most points or kill the most props. Sure, you get a couple of friends here and there who work together, or the occasional person who'll shout out a prop is heading towards the cp, but otherwise it's not a mod that needs teamwork by any means. And if you have to get a whole team together to bring down a single prop, well then yes, there are issues with that map.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Clownophobia on July 01, 2013, 11:02:13 am
If you think that's the only map where you can try to learn surviving with your scout, then you either aren't playing the mod right or just not playing it well.

I know there are other maps where you can learn surviving but aren't we talking about Kaka? And I can admit it that I might not be the best one to play on PHH but atleast I'm trying my best.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 01, 2013, 11:58:13 am
Generally speaking, prophunt isn't a mod that requires teamwork. People want to get the most points or kill the most props. Sure, you get a couple of friends here and there who work together, or the occasional person who'll shout out a prop is heading towards the cp, but otherwise it's not a mod that needs teamwork by any means. And if you have to get a whole team together to bring down a single prop, well then yes, there are issues with that map.

Surely if it's the last prop the whole team should be working together, especially if they are a good runner? Generally on Kaka the last prop isn't an issue unless they are a regular with running abilities :P
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 01, 2013, 05:12:31 pm
Surely if it's the last prop the whole team should be working together, especially if they are a good runner? Generally on Kaka the last prop isn't an issue unless they are a regular with running abilities :P

Not necessarily. Just because everyone is chasing/looking for the same prop doesn't mean they're working together. You'll have 5 people running after the prop with flares, some people trying to camp the cp or a random health pack, and perhaps some newish people still unaware of where the prop is. Working together would have one or two people camping the cp, one person at each health pack, some people at designated areas in case that prop heads that way, etc., etc. And this can apply to any map, not just Kaka.
So, yeah, working together and doing seperate things are fairly different. And the majority of people want that last kill for themselves and aren't going to want to work as a team.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Austone on July 07, 2013, 02:43:56 am
Removing Kakariko would be one of the best things to happen on this server.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 07, 2013, 11:30:22 am
Would you guys be opposed to me tweaking the map some, providing the original maker is no longer around or doesn't want to or something?
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 07, 2013, 01:39:16 pm
Sounds good to me, though I honestly don't see what needs editing with it.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 07, 2013, 04:06:49 pm
Which is why I'd like to get your guys' opinions on what to change, if anything. Removing/editing health packs (even changing some to medium/full), editing props, etc. I think I'd like to add some sort of door or move Blu starting spots some so they can't see red while hiding. Definitely want opinions before fiddling around with it.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 07, 2013, 04:59:26 pm
Which is why I'd like to get your guys' opinions on what to change, if anything. Removing/editing health packs (even changing some to medium/full), editing props, etc. I think I'd like to add some sort of door or move Blu starting spots some so they can't see red while hiding. Definitely want opinions before fiddling around with it.
turn it into ph_oasis_a1
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 07, 2013, 05:05:01 pm
BLU spawn already has doors.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 07, 2013, 05:23:04 pm
But the problem with Kaka is that it's just made for running, not hiding. Taking away the healthpacks will really just make it not really good for anything.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: LEON35 on July 07, 2013, 05:39:00 pm
Which is why I'd like to get your guys' opinions on what to change, if anything. Removing/editing health packs (even changing some to medium/full), editing props, etc. I think I'd like to add some sort of door or move Blu starting spots some so they can't see red while hiding. Definitely want opinions before fiddling around with it.

Make a statue of yourself in the center.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 07, 2013, 05:56:29 pm
there is nothing that can be done about kakariko to make it a good map. it was originally a vsh map, of course it's not going to work on ph, and it shouldn't have been put on the server in the first place
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 07, 2013, 06:10:21 pm
Personally the only thing I can see which could make it a little more interesting is changing the heights of the buildings so that it is either not possible or extremely difficult to jump to adjacent buildings, this might mean putting some form of stairs/ramp/pile of props for access, but honestly, my vote is leave as is.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 07, 2013, 06:12:21 pm
Eh, it was worth a shot. Guess I'd rather spend the time making my own map, anyways. :P

Make a statue of yourself in the center.
We'd need a statue of Goats to make kaka perfect. :P
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 07, 2013, 07:27:10 pm
Make a pirate dock map!! With a pirate ship and everything! And water that kills you!
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 07, 2013, 07:51:16 pm
We already have cargo though. Maybe not as pirate-y, but still a ship. :(

Dunno, have a couple map ideas, it's just getting around to doing them. :P
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 07, 2013, 08:08:56 pm
I said dock, not ship.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 07, 2013, 08:39:31 pm
Ah, okay. Well, come to think of it, there actually is a ph_dockyard. Not pirates, but still has the water that can kill you and some ships in the dock. :P
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 08, 2013, 05:25:05 am
How about these as inspiration :P

http://nintendo3dscommunity.com/NintendoScreens/Wet-Dry_World_64.jpg

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/2/2c/Whomp%27s_Fortress_64.png/280px-Whomp%27s_Fortress_64.png
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 08, 2013, 07:51:27 am
EXCUSE ME GYZZZZ :--)) UR GETING A BIT OF TOPIC  WE BETER GET BACK ON TOPIC
REMOVE BUKAKKIRIKO
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 08, 2013, 08:28:18 am
I was about to say, perhaps it would be better if someone were to create a 'maps idea' topic, rather than tossing them around in a topic that has no relevance and that will eventually become burried. :P
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 08, 2013, 09:44:14 am
Oh God, ph_diredocks du want.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Clownophobia on July 09, 2013, 11:48:50 am
Oh God, ph_diredocks du want.
So, you're telling us you want to see pyros using their melee weapons while drowning and hunting the props down? That might work well.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 09, 2013, 11:53:32 am
Yessssssssssssssss!
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: LEON35 on July 09, 2013, 01:35:48 pm
Statue of the great all mighty Turkle/Tribble king nao
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Luvedragon on July 09, 2013, 03:08:16 pm
Ph_spiders. A map dedicated to Voidy. :D
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 09, 2013, 03:42:00 pm
I was about to say, perhaps it would be better if someone were to create a 'maps idea' topic, rather than tossing them around in a topic that has no relevance and that will eventually become burried. :P

Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: BLAKUboy on July 09, 2013, 04:24:48 pm
How about no.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: VoiDeD on July 09, 2013, 06:37:16 pm
Ph_spiders. A map dedicated to Voidy. :D

Well, if I ever needed an excuse to not visit the server...
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: box on July 19, 2013, 02:54:20 am
Good reason to remove this shit map is cuz itll freeze n everybody cant do shit. Jeah, remove dis.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: VoiDeD on July 19, 2013, 04:00:23 am
Good reason to remove this shit map is cuz itll freeze n everybody cant do shit. Jeah, remove dis.

A good reason to keep the map is because it will freeze players and give me a better chance to diagnose why it happens.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: MrEskimoMan on July 19, 2013, 07:26:30 am
GM got kakariko for the second time when they installed the new cfg from alliedmodders, and removed it again pretty much without hesitation. If another ranked server wants it removed, maybe it should be removed here too.
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: Marshii on July 19, 2013, 04:24:24 pm
Why would GM having ranks make it more important that Kakariko is removed?
Title: Re: Removing Kakariko
Post by: box on July 19, 2013, 04:34:39 pm
Why would GM having ranks make it more important that Kakariko is removed?

Dont worry bout him he a dum lil kid.