Author Topic: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale  (Read 5778 times)

Offline jay50jay

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Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« on: March 15, 2013, 06:39:19 pm »
There are some weapons in Hale that are straight upgrades to others. I figured that making a mega thread that adresses and brainstorms solutions for these weapons wouldn't hurt anything.

The Scout

The Soda Popper - Since the server has taunt for crits, the time and effort it takes to build up the mini crit bar is nullified by the time and effort it takes to tap 'h'. Perhaps giving a slight speed boost as well as mini crits would allow Scouts to use it for pinch situations.

Crit a Cola - Basically a gimped High Five taunt with a cool down. I figure that giving it full crits and giving it a longer crit time would be a possible solution.

The Winger - I don't even know.

The Solider

The Cow Mangler - The fact that it can't fire crits at all is an issue. Giving it the ability to crit would balance it enough on it's own.

The Beggar's Bazooka - This weapon specializes in spamming groups of people, not single targets. Perhaps giving it a faster reload speed and a slightly larger rocket capacity would allow Soliders to damage Hale in large bursts. It would also allow the Solider to escape with comparable ease to the Rocket Launcher.

The Reserve Shooter - The faster weapon switch is trivial, and the mini crits are already a staple of the shotgun. I would say giving it full crits would allow it a higher damage output, while also encouraging a higher level of accuracy.

The Bison - As I suggested in a previous thread, giving it full crits would allow it to do high damage if you manage to hit Hale with it. A just reward in my opinion.

Shovel and Reskins - When compared to the Escape Plan, in Hale and in normal, it's almost a straight downgrade. I don't know what to suggest for this, other than raising the damage substantially.

The Pyro

The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.

The Backburner: It's large consumption of ammo for airblast isn't really worth the extra damage output it gives. I don't have any ideas at the moment, but it definitely stands to reason that it could be tweaked.

Reserve Shooter: See above.

Manmelter: With taunt for crits, the extinguishing bonus is pretty much moot. Again, not sure about this one.

Scorch Shot: I think that buffing the knockback would be reasonable, giving him a long rage airblast alternative.

Melee: To be honest, I think that the Pyro's melee options are very balanced.


I'll continue working on and revising this thread over the next couple of days.



Feel free to suggest your ideas, constructively criticize mine, or tell me that I'm a shitlord with terrible suggestions!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 07:47:55 pm by jay50jay »
"If you see a moose, just whip your dang out and start whackin' it. That kind of sexual confidence will get inside the moose's head." - Northernlion, June, 2012.

Offline Miaumon

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 08:12:57 pm »
Crit a Cola - Basically a gimped High Five taunt with a cool down. I figure that giving it full crits and giving it a longer crit time would be a possible solution.
You realize we did right?

>The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.

The pyro can take quite a few hits

Offline Punishment_Fatal

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 08:14:53 pm »
You realize we did right?

>The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.

The pyro can take quite a few hits
Maybe 5 hits while taunting?

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Offline Miaumon

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 08:15:07 pm »
>Scorch Shot: I think that buffing the knockback would be reasonable, giving him a long rage airblast alternative.

tried to buff knockback, since there is no real way we got rid of the 50% damage loss.

We also gave the mangler and the bison minicrits since a infinite ammo RL with full crits would be OP as fu.

Manmelter also has infinite ammo so a pyro can just spam away.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 08:17:07 pm by Miaumon »

Offline jay50jay

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 08:17:07 pm »
You realize we did right?

>The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.

The pyro can take quite a few hits
My bad on the Phlog. Tested out the Cola. While it gives full crits, the amount of time isn't as long as I would've liked. Still, I'll fix that.
"If you see a moose, just whip your dang out and start whackin' it. That kind of sexual confidence will get inside the moose's head." - Northernlion, June, 2012.

Offline Miaumon

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 08:17:38 pm »
the crits go for 14 seconds, if a medic is healing you it goes back down to 7.

Offline jay50jay

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 08:35:02 pm »
>Scorch Shot: I think that buffing the knockback would be reasonable, giving him a long rage airblast alternative.

tried to buff knockback, since there is no real way we got rid of the 50% damage loss.

We also gave the mangler and the bison minicrits since a infinite ammo RL with full crits would be OP as fu.

Manmelter also has infinite ammo so a pyro can just spam away.
Still, is the infinite ammo worth the sacrifice of the extreme mobility that the Flare Gun gives you? Especially since ammo packs are spread rather generously around most maps. Not to mention dispensers.

Mini crits with mangler is reasonable, but the nearly complete lack of knockback with the Bison means that if you're close enough to Hale to reliably hit him multiple times in succession, he's probably going to kill you anyway.
"If you see a moose, just whip your dang out and start whackin' it. That kind of sexual confidence will get inside the moose's head." - Northernlion, June, 2012.

Offline Ghost PGD

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 09:37:16 pm »
The Winger - I don't even know.

Nobody knows... not even Gaben

Offline BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 02:03:25 pm »
Nobody knows... not even Gaben
winger has a 100% damage bonus but less 100 hp


Offline jay50jay

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 02:19:15 pm »
winger has a 100% damage bonus but less 100 hp
Hale's punch will kill you as a Scout in one hit regardless of health.
"If you see a moose, just whip your dang out and start whackin' it. That kind of sexual confidence will get inside the moose's head." - Northernlion, June, 2012.

Offline Punishment_Fatal

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 02:30:51 pm »
winger has a 100% damage bonus but less 100 hp
Maybe the Winger has a 100% clip size but a -10% move speed on wearer?

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Offline BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 02:32:28 pm »
thats teh point but 100% clip size and 20% less movement or it disables double jump


Offline Miaumon

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 04:23:29 pm »
the point is less clip size and more damage. Not less speed or anything like that, might as well play heavy or soldier.

Offline Shooter`

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 04:21:12 pm »
the point is less clip size and more damage. Not less speed or anything like that, might as well play heavy or soldier.

Not that I play VSH all the often but the "less bullets more damage" thing is stupid; even if you hit every shot at any range it will still be lower DPS than the pistol after the first clip is done. The weapon's just balanced badly because the lower clip size takes away so much damage that it's just not a viable weapon.

Offline Miaumon

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Re: Adressing Balance Issues in Hale
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 05:40:52 pm »
should we increase the damage then?
I have always wanted to change the damage on the Eviction notice so it would have the same DPS as the fists
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 05:47:03 pm by Miaumon »