Saxton Hell Forums
Server Discussion => Saxton Hell => Topic started by: jay50jay on March 15, 2013, 06:39:19 pm
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There are some weapons in Hale that are straight upgrades to others. I figured that making a mega thread that adresses and brainstorms solutions for these weapons wouldn't hurt anything.
The Scout
The Soda Popper - Since the server has taunt for crits, the time and effort it takes to build up the mini crit bar is nullified by the time and effort it takes to tap 'h'. Perhaps giving a slight speed boost as well as mini crits would allow Scouts to use it for pinch situations.
Crit a Cola - Basically a gimped High Five taunt with a cool down. I figure that giving it full crits and giving it a longer crit time would be a possible solution.
The Winger - I don't even know.
The Solider
The Cow Mangler - The fact that it can't fire crits at all is an issue. Giving it the ability to crit would balance it enough on it's own.
The Beggar's Bazooka - This weapon specializes in spamming groups of people, not single targets. Perhaps giving it a faster reload speed and a slightly larger rocket capacity would allow Soliders to damage Hale in large bursts. It would also allow the Solider to escape with comparable ease to the Rocket Launcher.
The Reserve Shooter - The faster weapon switch is trivial, and the mini crits are already a staple of the shotgun. I would say giving it full crits would allow it a higher damage output, while also encouraging a higher level of accuracy.
The Bison - As I suggested in a previous thread, giving it full crits would allow it to do high damage if you manage to hit Hale with it. A just reward in my opinion.
Shovel and Reskins - When compared to the Escape Plan, in Hale and in normal, it's almost a straight downgrade. I don't know what to suggest for this, other than raising the damage substantially.
The Pyro
The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.
The Backburner: It's large consumption of ammo for airblast isn't really worth the extra damage output it gives. I don't have any ideas at the moment, but it definitely stands to reason that it could be tweaked.
Reserve Shooter: See above.
Manmelter: With taunt for crits, the extinguishing bonus is pretty much moot. Again, not sure about this one.
Scorch Shot: I think that buffing the knockback would be reasonable, giving him a long rage airblast alternative.
Melee: To be honest, I think that the Pyro's melee options are very balanced.
I'll continue working on and revising this thread over the next couple of days.
Feel free to suggest your ideas, constructively criticize mine, or tell me that I'm a shitlord with terrible suggestions!
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Crit a Cola - Basically a gimped High Five taunt with a cool down. I figure that giving it full crits and giving it a longer crit time would be a possible solution.
You realize we did right?
>The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.
The pyro can take quite a few hits
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You realize we did right?
>The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.
The pyro can take quite a few hits
Maybe 5 hits while taunting?
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>Scorch Shot: I think that buffing the knockback would be reasonable, giving him a long rage airblast alternative.
tried to buff knockback, since there is no real way we got rid of the 50% damage loss.
We also gave the mangler and the bison minicrits since a infinite ammo RL with full crits would be OP as fu.
Manmelter also has infinite ammo so a pyro can just spam away.
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You realize we did right?
>The Phlog: Sacrificing airblast for mini crits makes no sense with taunt 4 crits enabled. I suggest that you raise the resistance of the Pyro to survive multiple hits while taunting for rage as well as during his rage, that way she can be much more aggressive.
The pyro can take quite a few hits
My bad on the Phlog. Tested out the Cola. While it gives full crits, the amount of time isn't as long as I would've liked. Still, I'll fix that.
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the crits go for 14 seconds, if a medic is healing you it goes back down to 7.
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>Scorch Shot: I think that buffing the knockback would be reasonable, giving him a long rage airblast alternative.
tried to buff knockback, since there is no real way we got rid of the 50% damage loss.
We also gave the mangler and the bison minicrits since a infinite ammo RL with full crits would be OP as fu.
Manmelter also has infinite ammo so a pyro can just spam away.
Still, is the infinite ammo worth the sacrifice of the extreme mobility that the Flare Gun gives you? Especially since ammo packs are spread rather generously around most maps. Not to mention dispensers.
Mini crits with mangler is reasonable, but the nearly complete lack of knockback with the Bison means that if you're close enough to Hale to reliably hit him multiple times in succession, he's probably going to kill you anyway.
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The Winger - I don't even know.
Nobody knows... not even Gaben
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Nobody knows... not even Gaben
winger has a 100% damage bonus but less 100 hp
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winger has a 100% damage bonus but less 100 hp
Hale's punch will kill you as a Scout in one hit regardless of health.
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winger has a 100% damage bonus but less 100 hp
Maybe the Winger has a 100% clip size but a -10% move speed on wearer?
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thats teh point but 100% clip size and 20% less movement or it disables double jump
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the point is less clip size and more damage. Not less speed or anything like that, might as well play heavy or soldier.
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the point is less clip size and more damage. Not less speed or anything like that, might as well play heavy or soldier.
Not that I play VSH all the often but the "less bullets more damage" thing is stupid; even if you hit every shot at any range it will still be lower DPS than the pistol after the first clip is done. The weapon's just balanced badly because the lower clip size takes away so much damage that it's just not a viable weapon.
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should we increase the damage then?
I have always wanted to change the damage on the Eviction notice so it would have the same DPS as the fists
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should we increase the damage then?
Maybe *sniff* Maybe
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Not that I play VSH all the often but the "less bullets more damage" thing is stupid; even if you hit every shot at any range it will still be lower DPS than the pistol after the first clip is done. The weapon's just balanced badly because the lower clip size takes away so much damage that it's just not a viable weapon.
have you paired it with the soda popper yet
i mean there's a reason as to why they're in a set
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have you paired it with the soda popper yet
i mean there's a reason as to why they're in a set
Soda Popper + Pistol = 100% more effective.
But this is a Hale suggestion thread. Even if it is somewhat viable in normal TF2 it is unarguably useless in Hale.
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How about "crits whenever it is supposed to minicrit" on the soda popper.
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How about "crits whenever it is supposed to minicrit" on the soda popper.
That sounds great. It's a good alternative to the High Five play style.
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Soda Popper updated.
Ideas for the winger and the beggars bazooka next plz.
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Ideas for the winger and the beggars bazooka next plz.
Well the pistol with crits can do 540 damage with all 12 hits. Winger does maybe 260 with all 5 of its crits? Double damage should be fine to even it out with the pistol.
Dunno about bazooka, maybe try to remove the rocket deviation to make it aim better for Hale?
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Dunno if this is an open tread or not, but the Battalion's Backup.
This needs to have damage reducers for fall damage as well, as the only way to get use from it is if Hale attacks you, and that can send you flying across the map with only 13 health left. Upon landing, you could die from the fall damage you couldn't stop because of the random knockback Hale seems to have, which makes putting yourself in danger for the team seem a bit moot.
If it gets a health boost, Fall damage reducer or combination of both, it would be more practical to use said Battalion's Backup. Otherwise, there's no real opportunity to make use of it, which saddens me greatly.
(also the buff banner could give full crits when used, but that's a different matter entirely...)
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BEGGAR'S BAZOOKA:
It is an interesting spread weapon indeed; I think raising the rocket amount to 4 or 5 would be good.
Reloading it is the subjective part IMO; if he reloads too fast, its overpowered. Your suggestion about being able to escape with it like a rocket launcher is a good point. I think it should have the ammo expansion, and only the first rocket be INSTANT to load in, but only when rocket jumping somehow. Perhaps, while the soldier is ducking, jumping, and looking down towards his feet all simultaneously. I don't know if that's programmable, but I think it would make beggars balanced.
Another suggestion is reducing clip size, but make the rockets homing after .5 or .25 seconds of being launched. (delay for rocket jumping)
THE ESCAPE PLAN:
Escape plan is good, but not fast enough to escape, even with low HP. Equalizer is good with low HP, but the hale's range is so wide, you'll never get on him head-on. I suggest you combine the 2 weapons. if soldier would equip either the equalizer or escape plan, replace it with the fusion weapon. (Like the medic's custom kritzkrieg.)
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Can we increase ammo required for airblast? So annoying when Pyros can just spam it to hell.
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BEGGAR'S BAZOOKA:
It is an interesting spread weapon indeed; I think raising the rocket amount to 4 or 5 would be good.
Reloading it is the subjective part IMO; if he reloads too fast, its overpowered. Your suggestion about being able to escape with it like a rocket launcher is a good point. I think it should have the ammo expansion, and only the first rocket be INSTANT to load in, but only when rocket jumping somehow. Perhaps, while the soldier is ducking, jumping, and looking down towards his feet all simultaneously. I don't know if that's programmable, but I think it would make beggars balanced.
Another suggestion is reducing clip size, but make the rockets homing after .5 or .25 seconds of being launched. (delay for rocket jumping)
THE ESCAPE PLAN:
Escape plan is good, but not fast enough to escape, even with low HP. Equalizer is good with low HP, but the hale's range is so wide, you'll never get on him head-on. I suggest you combine the 2 weapons. if soldier would equip either the equalizer or escape plan, replace it with the fusion weapon. (Like the medic's custom kritzkrieg.)
i don't understand why you believe soldier needs a buff when he's one of the strongest and most annoying classes right now.
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Can we increase ammo required for airblast? So annoying when Pyros can just spam it to hell.
Please, think of the goombas. How will I support my high damage?