Saxton Hell Forums

Server Discussion => Saxton Hell => Topic started by: Shae on August 26, 2013, 12:22:31 am

Title: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Shae on August 26, 2013, 12:22:31 am
I guess we should have a thread here to suggest/complain about the current weapon that Saxton Hale mode makes changes to. (Like how any medigun is switched to a Customized Kritzkrieg that gives crits, 140% ubercharge and invulnerability.

Have stat suggestions, post em here.

First things first: the /HaleClass command should be updated, not all of the latest weapon changes are noted in that command's menu.

Second:
Gloves of running Urgently
>Marked for death upon use
>-7 damage per half second during use. (Hell it used to be -6 damage per half second before valve updated it.)

Choose one voidy.

Also whats the story behind the cowmangler. Any damage you deal with that weapon can be dealt twice as much with any other rocket launcher. Sure the reload time and the 4 shot charge update is good, but in a game mode that relies on more damage-oriented gameplay there is no point in using it. Any updates/buffs planned for this weapon? Because it seems like it has a lot of unneeded buffs for this specific gamemode. Full crit or damage boost pls.

Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Windy on August 26, 2013, 06:06:47 am
Second:
Gloves of running Urgently
>Marked for death upon use
Blame Valve®™ for making it hard to fix this

Also whats the story behind the cowmangler. Any damage you deal with that weapon can be dealt twice as much with any other rocket launcher. Sure the reload time and the 4 shot charge update is good, but in a game mode that relies on more damage-oriented gameplay there is no point in using it. Any updates/buffs planned for this weapon? Because it seems like it has a lot of unneeded buffs for this specific gamemode. Full crit or damage boost pls.

Full crits can't be put on the cow mangler, it simply does not work®™. We already have rocket launchers that have have a small blast radius and one with faster rockets, so I propose making the Cow Mangler's blast radius bigger, and maybe giving it mini-crits.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: crab on August 26, 2013, 04:49:34 pm
Also whats the story behind the cowmangler.
the soldier found a mad scientist and the scientist gave the soldier the mangler and said "test it out for me"
but seriously (http://forums.saxtonhell.com/index.php?topic=953.msg8651#msg8651)
you could say it's more durable than the stock, but that in exchange for high damage is not a good tradeoff since lots of maps give out ammo like candy

Cow Mangler...giving it mini-crits.
doesn't it have guaranteed minicrits already
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Shae on September 06, 2013, 08:56:29 pm
doesn't it have guaranteed minicrits already

Nope. Used to I think.

Any plans for weapons at all in the upcoming weeks? Or in general? I'm starting to feel bad about starting a weapons suggestion thread and valve making it hard to change the specs of certain weapons.

Will the /haleclass command be updated with the latest weapon changes at least?
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: VoiDeD on September 06, 2013, 09:08:49 pm
Will the /haleclass command be updated with the latest weapon changes at least?

At this point the code changes are really far ahead of what's displayed for /haleclass that it'll be a pain to look through all the changes to make sure everything is listed.

Generally /halenew covers most (if not all) weapon changes.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Shae on September 06, 2013, 10:14:36 pm
At this point the code changes are really far ahead of what's displayed for /haleclass that it'll be a pain to look through all the changes to make sure everything is listed.

Generally /halenew covers most (if not all) weapon changes.
:/
Shit, well i have to scroll through all that. Oh well, danke anyways.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Lunacy on September 07, 2013, 10:00:40 pm
I still feel like giving +50 health to the phlog, the only reason pyros stay alive is with airblasts or flare jumping early.  Phlog pyros are often useless and unhelpful and die almost immediately. (sometimes i try not to kill them to give them a chance at worthwhile damage)

Idc bout this one but fan o war reduces rage by 5% a hit? and hale gains about 5% for every 95 damage taken, it's not worth the risk of being that close just to reduce a slim bit of rage, 10-15% a hit might seem OP being able to deplete rage completely in 10-7 hits but honestly when does scout get more than 1 or 2 consecutive melee hits before being killed?

The Conniver's Kunai would be much more worth using if you could overheal over 200 instead of 180 (maybe something like 250 hp on stab) since you can barely survive a hit even with the dead ringer, usually slim chance to survive with just 60 hp.

I dunno about anything else, everything else seems fine and reasonably buffed.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Miaumon on October 29, 2013, 02:01:26 pm
Would anyone be opposed to the "Liberty Launcher" be reverted back to the full damage, 3 rocket version. rather than the new 4-rocket version. I have noticed a big drop in people who use it, that might just be on the part people realized the default is overall better but this is just skepticism.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: lonestar13m on November 12, 2013, 02:55:57 am
Would anyone be opposed to the "Liberty Launcher" be reverted back to the full damage, 3 rocket version. rather than the new 4-rocket version.

I personally would love the Liberty Launcher to be reverted back to it's original ways, as it was just great.



I also have a few ideas I've been meaning to mention after being on Saxton Hell this past year (started december something), and these ideas are for weapons and just don't get as much use as other weapons that are promoted by everyone else.

First and foremost, I'd like to discuss a number of heavy's weapons, as he has a lot more variety than the Tomislav/Sandvich/GoRU everyone recommends. Starting it off is a personal favorite of mine:

Eviction Notice
Current Stats:
+ Full crits
+ 50% firing speed
- 60% damage penalty

Suggested Stats to be added:
+ 10, 15, or 20 HP healed per hit
+ can over heal to 350 HP
and/or
+ 10% speed while deployed

Reasoning why: I love charging at hale with a melee, and I love trying to beat a shirtless muscular Australian with giant Russian hands, but there isn't a low enough morality rate to confidently do it by myself, even with a sandvich in hand. And nobody wants to attempt it when your outputting less damage than the usual stock, even with a faster firing speed. Heck, the GoRU hits harder than these while giving the heavy a speed boost at the cost of health. With these new changes, it offers players to get a chance to put hurt on hale without feeling defenseless if their main weapons runs out of ammo. Plus, this really wouldn't overpower hale at all as it requires skill to rack up enough health without dying to hale's own fist.

Next weapon on the list: The forgotten shotgun

The Family Business
Current stats:
minicrits
+ 33% clip size
- 15% damage

Suggested stats:
+ 33% clip size
- 20% damage
+ 60% more accurate
+ 15% reload speed
+ 5% firing speed

Reasoning why: Very few player wanted to take part in the family business, especially when its a very sloppy business. With less damage than the stock shotgun and no healing capabilities towards the player or others, I myself would advise others to look past the "pros" of this gun. In order to make this gun more appealing of use, the gun should have a faster reload/shooting speed that differentiates away from the traditionally shotty. And if you really want to help out others, you wanna be able to hinder hale as much as you can, so with that 60% accuracy comes a better knockback when dealing with airborn hales. Now to ensure this gun doesn't surpass the original shotgun + enrage hales, a higher damage reduction is suggested.

and of the second secondary I'd like to discuss is the...

Buffalo Steak Sandvich.
Current Stats:
I honestly have no idea what this item does in vsh other than limit weapon use to melee only, increased damage intake, ability to heal others, and a faster speed.

Suggested Stats if possible:
+ Remove restriction to melee only
+ ignore move speed reduction with deployed minigun
+ 5% damage intake
+ 10% move speed
and/or
- remove ability to heal others directly
+ a shorter cocheror effect within a radius of the heavy

Reasoning: I rarely (pun not intended) see usage of this item in Saxton Hell, not only because of melee's full crit status, but of an increase in damage intake. Again, I honestly am not sure how this items works in vsh but nobody uses it, so I thought up of new stats to it that would seem a bit more appealing. Basically the BSS needs an upgrade but take my suggested stats with a grain of salt.

and with my final weapon suggestion for the heavy is the overlooked primary...

The Huo-Long Heater
Current Stats:
+ Hell's a blazing from the minigun
+ 6 ammo per second while hell is blazing

Suggested stats to be added:
+ 2 or 3 ammo for each successful hit on hale
+ Heavy can absorb fire damage as ammo
+ 10% faster movespeed while minigun is spinning
+ 33% afterburn damage
and/or
+15% accurate firing

Reasoning why: The ring of fire is cute when trying to prevent spies from attacking, but big Australian men don't care much of the minor inconvenience of afterburn. And when that inconvenient afterburn takes up most of the ammo, the only thing heavies can do is sit his butt at a dispenser if he wants to keep his minigun going. So offer an incentive of using the gun, best looking option is a sort of ammo regeneration to keep the minigun going longer. The added speed is to have the heavy maximize the effectiveness of the the flames by being a bit more dodgy.

That's all I have to say for the heavy class, these weapons if boosted properly could add a lot more variety and fun when it comes to being the heavy, a class that only the experienced can really do something with him, (except of Wingsfield, he cheats and should probably be banned forever for being a terrible person to medics on his own team :I )

Comments, Criticism, something to tell me that adding stats to weapons is harder than it sounds would be most welcome. I really do hope voicing my opinions here/the forum could help make some good changes.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo on November 12, 2013, 07:49:25 am
The Huo-Long Heater
Current Stats:
+ Hell's a blazing from the minigun
+ 6 ammo per second while hell is blazing

Suggested stats to be added:
+ 2 or 3 ammo for each successful hit on hale
+ Heavy can absorb fire damage as ammo
+ 10% faster movespeed while minigun is spinning
+ 33% afterburn damage
and/or
+15% accurate firing

um in vsh cave is the only hale that does fire damage, and in ff2 we have like the rocket, cave, and mtp but really absord fire damage as ammo not possible at all.(did u get that from borderlands with the one shield that absorbs damage and put it in ur ammo?). Huo-long does 3 ammo when spinning up 10% more movement speed is kinda not need on my side,(hey atleast this isnt vsponyville 75% movement when spinning up mini guns, with kgb heavies taking 96 damage and doing 360 with 20+ hp on hit)but the after burn damage should be 50% like flare gun
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: VoiDeD on November 15, 2013, 03:25:47 am
The problem with some of these suggestions are the "per-hit" bonuses. Most good heavies can consistently get hits on hale which would (depending on the buff) either give the player essentially infinite ammo or infinite health.

As for the rest, I'll defer to Miaumon as he's generally the one who deals with balancing suggestions.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: lonestar13m on November 15, 2013, 05:04:51 am
The problem with some of these suggestions are the "per-hit" bonuses. Most good heavies can consistently get hits on hale which would (depending on the buff) either give the player essentially infinite ammo or infinite health.

In my defense of the per-hit ammo bonus, it was only directed for the huo-long heater, which loses ammo much more rapidly than the other miniguns. the per-hit bonus isn't supposed to give the heavy unlimited ammo but just to make the heater last longer. For the per hit health bonus, demoknights essentially have infinite HP using the eyelander/half-zat. Plus even at 20 HP per hit, the player would have to hit hale at least 11 times to survive another punch. Sure maybe cave is a bit under the bus but he still has rage.

@ Bobobo: The fire absorb thing was kinda over the top, but it was my own idea.

*pokes Miaumon with the stick of truth*
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: crab on November 15, 2013, 05:54:21 am
For the per hit health bonus, demoknights essentially have infinite HP using the eyelander/half-zat
You missed the fact that you need to have hit hale 4 times (2 if you're using booties) otherwise you'll die from a single punch and if you aren't using booties you're going to die from the devastating 1-foot fall after getting punched. If you are using booties, that means you're restricted to melee which makes it that much easier to get you killed.
And the zatoichi here is garbage so it's not worth mentioning :(http://)o)
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo on November 15, 2013, 07:34:54 am
well the huo long uses 3 ammo when spinning up so u are firing rounds and loosing 3 ammo that is ok but in-game of vavle servers 6 ammo waste for spin up is wasting ammo huo long is for people who know to use mini guns and spy check with it.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Miaumon on November 16, 2013, 04:58:33 pm
Quote
Eviction Notice:
+ 10, 15, or 20 HP healed per hit
+ can over heal to 350 HP
and/or
+ 10% speed while deployed
The HP would be a bit useless since it just takes 2 hits to die
The speed would make the GRU pointless if you could just use this
Quote
The Family Business
+ 33% clip size
- 20% damage
+ 60% more accurate
+ 15% reload speed
+ 5% firing speed
Would make the stock shotgun pointless if you can reload it faster and do damage from a range.

Buffalo Steak Sandvich.

There is no real way for us to do any of this
 
Quote
The Huo-Long Heater
Current Stats:
+ Hell's a blazing from the minigun
+ 6 ammo per second while hell is blazing

Suggested stats to be added:
+ 2 or 3 ammo for each successful hit on hale
+ Heavy can absorb fire damage as ammo
+ 10% faster movespeed while minigun is spinning
+ 33% afterburn damage
and/or
+15% accurate firing
This would become the charge and targe of the heavy, meaning you use it against cave and switch afterwards. The fire does very little damage as is so I decided before just to leave it as is.

But I kind of like the idea of the heavy moving a bit quicker while it is spun up, also we knocked it down to 3 ammo per second when it first came out.


IMO
The Huo-Long Heater - Make you move faster while spun up
Buffalo steak - Damage reduction 50%? would make medic heavy combos stronger but it wears off after 7 seconds anyways, Would still have melee only.
not even sure we can do that one.
The Family Business - Slightly more accurate and shoots a bit faster
Eviction Notice - no fucking clue
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo on November 16, 2013, 05:30:13 pm
Eviction Notice should just make u be like holiday punch u remove stun when hitting hale
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: lonestar13m on November 18, 2013, 02:12:53 pm
Quote
IMO
The Huo-Long Heater - Make you move faster while spun up
Buffalo steak - Damage reduction 50%? would make medic heavy combos stronger but it wears off after 7 seconds anyways, Would still have melee only.
not even sure we can do that one.
The Family Business - Slightly more accurate and shoots a bit faster
Eviction Notice - no fucking clue
I still think the heater's flames should deal more damage, but I'm fine with the move speed increase. Do whatever is needed for the Buffalo Steak Sandvich, kinda like how the phlog get's a defensive buff during "MMPH". Family business, I'm worried about it just getting slightly better accuracy, like what do you mean percentage wise. Final suggestions for buffing the Eviction notice:

> 25 HP restored on hit + 5% move speed while deployed
or
> 20% weapons switch speed, so heavies could knock away hale then get back to their minigun
or
> Faster sandvich regeneration per hit or in general.

Suggestions from other people that play heavy would be useful.

I'll wait to talk about other least used weapons  for other classes, just so I don't overwhelm people with my suggestions.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo on November 19, 2013, 08:48:44 am
I still think the heater's flames should deal more damage, but I'm fine with the move speed increase. Do whatever is needed for the Buffalo Steak Sandvich, kinda like how the phlog get's a defensive buff during "MMPH". Family business, I'm worried about it just getting slightly better accuracy, like what do you mean percentage wise. Final suggestions for buffing the Eviction notice:

> 25 HP restored on hit + 5% move speed while deployed
or
> 20% weapons switch speed, so heavies could knock away hale then get back to their minigun
or
> Faster sandvich regeneration per hit or in general.

Suggestions from other people that play heavy would be useful.

I'll wait to talk about other least used weapons  for other classes, just so I don't overwhelm people with my suggestions.
i like the 25 hp on hit, but i got to say one thing battalions backpack and dieing from fall damage when hale hits u and u get launched across the map to die, can you put mantread stats of less fall damage on wear to allow them to survive
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: huh7600 on November 22, 2013, 02:20:22 pm
While we're on the subject, while I appreciate the speed boost given to the spy after a backstab, the speed boost lets hale see where the spy is. Was that intentional, or can we fix that somehow?
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo on November 22, 2013, 03:35:15 pm
While we're on the subject, while I appreciate the speed boost given to the spy after a backstab, the speed boost lets hale see where the spy is. Was that intentional, or can we fix that somehow?
thats on purpose  and its not a bug its in tf2 itself if a spy gets whipped u see the speed boost
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: VoiDeD on November 22, 2013, 06:19:36 pm
While we're on the subject, while I appreciate the speed boost given to the spy after a backstab, the speed boost lets hale see where the spy is. Was that intentional, or can we fix that somehow?

It's intentional. It gives hale a chance to try to follow the spy in 1v1-like situations where it's easier to notice the speed boost trail.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: lonestar13m on June 18, 2014, 01:09:54 am
Here's a new wave of suggestions for the current weapons, I'll try not to be too nonsensical and make good points to what and why!

First Class: Scout
As it stands with this class, the scout is underpowered and overpowered depending on who is using him. I mean there are high-teir scouts like Critical that deal 5k+ damage without stomps, tech high-teir scout like dr.metean who can get the goombas and go past 4k, and then I see a bunch of players who can't break 1.5k most of the time (including myself). So take my suggestions for this class with a grain of salt (especially if they aren't feasible).

Scout Primaries:
Shortstop> Increase the healing bonus for 20% to 30-50%, that way scouts can reliably take a hit from hale with overheal without the need of the PBPPistol.
BFB> It'd be really awesome if we could replace the running boost mechanic into something that allows the scout to run faster for a short period of time, after dealing enough damage to fill the boost meter. For example, the scout stays running at his normal speed with the baby face blaster, no matter what the meter is at, but when the meter is full, the play could hit alt-fire to give the scout a boost of speed for several seconds.
Force-a-nature> Maybe remove the damage penalty?
Soda popper> Increase the clip by one?

Scout Secondaries:
Winger> Increase the damage bonus to 30%
Crit-a-cola> Make it give a winger if the person is last one standing? The only reason I see the scout should keep it is for the speed boost provided but it's gonna be hard to drink effectively being the only person alive, at least with the winger there is the jump height increase for mobility.
Bonk! atomic punch> Maybe instead of full melee invulnerability, it just resists melee damage by 70%. Oh, and if goombas are allowed under effects, they should be crit.

Scout melees:
Fan-o-war> I'm not sure if you noticed, or if anyone did, but I don't think the Fan actually removes rage per hit. Maybe there's an unnoticed update bug with it but I dunno. Anyway, I was thinking that instead of removing rage, each hit dealt by it increases the healer's ubercharge by 5%. This could allow medics to risk working with scouts. (maybe increase the attack range at least).
Wrap assassin> I like that it has +100% secondary ammo, but maybe it could be increased to +300%. Maybe decrease the recharge time by 15%?
Boston Basher> *troll*Increased melee swing speed*/troll*, or maybe added increase of health kit effectiveness by like 40%
Holy Mackerel> You know how the each hit is shown in the kill feed, why not extend it to giving hale an outline for a few seconds. Like with the standard sniper rifle.


Second Class: Soldier
The jumper that eats hales like babies, and makes them cry that they can't catch him either. Why did valve do the hi-5 thing, but that still doesn't stop him from laying down crockets. Well, there isn't much I'd like to say about this class because he is well balanced for the most part, but I still have a few ideas.

Soldier Primaries:
Beggar's Bazooka> Well, I was thinking if the firing/loading speed should be increased slightly. Or maybe make it so it buffs secondaries or melee items. I also noticed you can't rocket jump as high with it, or maybe the other rocket launchers became more floaty ?_?
Liberty Lawnchair> With it's current ability to reduce self harm for rocket jumping, I was thinking it'd be cool to allow shotguns to get full crits. Kinda like how the demoman gets full crits when he equips a shield.
Direkt Hit> Damage increases with more airshots done in a chain, like 5% each time? Resets when target is grounded.
Rocket Jumper> What I hate about the rocket jumper taking the mantreads effect is that you can't use whichever rocket launcher. You are forced to stay with the standard rockets. What'd be cool if you could could choose what type of rockets you fired on the fly, like the amp menu for the engineer. If that's too OP maybe just at the round start?

Soldier Secondaries:
Buff banner> You know what'd be awesome, if a full banner would allow the soldier to drop 2 half/full ammo packs to pick up. I know it probably wouldn't match well but it would have tons of usage in helping out a team.
Mantreads> I know I suggest this a lot, but it'd be really nice if the mantreads came with a speed/jump height bonus. If you can't rocket jump to oblivion, might as well be able to run there in style. Pair it with the Displinary Action and you got a good thing going for soldier. It'd also work well for Bazooka Soldiers
Conchorer> I like how the weapon is right now after valve buffed it to be usable, however I think that the current effect is a bit limited to vsh. I was thinking of extending the duration by 2 seconds, giving the players a good chance to chase hale to get enough health to back off. It'd also be nice if it allowed 50% overheal via damage.
Back-up battalion> Needs more honks
Reserve shooter> Give us that 4th clip, valve did, it'd do a ton more D:

Soldier Melee:
Equalizer> I was told that if you health was below 10%, you still get a speed boost in vsh. Not to the effect of the escape plan but it still should be there. Could someone confirm if it's true?
Disciplinary Action> The soldier should get a speed boost if he hits hale, but iirc Exile/Voidy said a while back that that caused some bugs.
Escape Plan> As a fun idea, a successful taunt kill hit should do 12% of health damage to hale. Or at least a respawn. Or some awesome music.
Freedom staff> Every successful hit from the freedom staff should have the sound of eagle screeching (I suggest this sound effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexop7ZOPP8# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexop7ZOPP8#)), or a successful hale kill has the star spangle banner played in the background. Kinda like how a double airshot finish causes a giant explosion.

Third Class: The Pyro (aka airblast for major environemental damage)
No seriously, one of the main schticks for some maps (Garbage Day/the new oriental themed map) is that hale can lose up to 1000 health per second and that is where the pyro excels. OTher than that abuse, the pyro doesn't have much more on his plate for damage. Another thing the pyro could do is get goombas via strategic airblast/flare jumping ways, but that's damage that only exists via a plugin. Implementing a way for standard pyro playthough in vsh is practically impossible as pyros have to work in close encounters against enemies. That doesn't work well when almost all hales can one-shot them with a punch without overheal, and with overheal plus valve's insane fall damage system. Anyway, let's get it going on with some of my ideas.

Pyro Primaries: Let's say for a second that the degreaser is basically the best weapon for pyros in vsh. With it's quick weapon switch and ability to airblast, it allows for a numerous amount of attacking possibilities and maneuvering in vsh. And that the only thing that it lacks is the defense buff + full crits of the phlog. What I suggest is to mix the two and make it as the standard flamethrower for vsh, kinda like how the Medic as the Medi-gun + Kritzkrieg combo. Some sort of tweaking would give pyros a real distrinction from other classes in order to output high amounts of damage while still being able to move at ease. That's my suggestion for Pyro Primaries, just make a useful standard.

Pyro secondaries: I personally would suggest all secondaries get a damage boost outside of full (mini) crits, but for 2 specific weapons...
Scorch Shot> being able to knockback hale or at least getting a better chance to ignite hale is awesome, not being able to get mini/full crit damage after hitting an ignited hale without taunting blows. I suggest maybe increasing the damage done by after burn by 50-70% to make things more interesting.
Manmelter> a supportable godsend against cave johnson as you can extinguish players without using precious ammo to build free crits. But other than that, what use does it have against the other hales? I have no ideas what to do though, but something needs to be done

Pyro melees: It'd be cool if the pyro got a range extension for melee
Fire Axe> Something about swinging the plain ol' fire axe at hale feels good, but maybe the pyro should be able to swing it maybe 15-20% faster.
Axtingusiher/Postal Pummeler> Do you think it'd be possible to not only give full crits, but increase damage dealt toward hale on fire? That'd make this weapon a lot more useful for the airblast melee juggling.
Third Degree> I've been to a server where a medic healing someone using the third degree would get 10% charge per hit, it was fun. Maybe give it a passive effect for pyro like regenerate +1 health per second?
Powerjack> This used to be my main pyro melee before the 20% increased damage to user, as it was a viable weapon to go nut on hale with it to get enough overheal to tank a hit.
Homewrecker> regain +10 primary ammo per hit, again useful for juggling while not giving infinite ammo
Sharpened Volcano Fragment> I wanna be creative with this, not only is a hot Volcano fragment, but it's sharpened too! So maybe alongside igniting hale, it make hale bleed for 6 seconds. That way it's usable in areas with water where hale can extinguish himself.

Fourth class: Demoman
vsh hale catered this class hard, not only does he get full crits with a shield, but he has the fastest primary taunt out of all the other classes. This makes sticky demo viable with 300 damage per sticky. Hell, I went bottle screen demo and I got over 3k 4 times in one map. This class got everything, however, I do feel a bit sad for 3 specific weapons.

Demoman secondary:
The Chargen Targe> I'm pretty sure you all know how useless this this was before it obtained the fireproof buff, then we had to nerf it to break against lemons because Cave couldn't win anymore without 100% precision. So, I suggest two ideas that would make it possibly useful against any hale. 1) You can reset your heads count to gain back the shield if you have 4 or more heads and/or 2) A successful shield bash stuns hale for a few seconds. I'm not sure if either of them are plausable or balanced, but this thing really needs a buff.

Demoman melees:
The skullcutter> Sure you got a damage boost but hell if you'll be able to survive mano-y-mano against hale with that speed, so I suggest maybe allowing a shield an extra hit before it breaks.
The Caber> Few people can understand the excitement of performing a successful critical caber hit to hale, or even the rarer caber goomba. What I suggest so people can experience this is by adding a 100% self damage reduction to this behemoth, so that one attempt doesn't bring the player to less than half his health. Otherwise maybe allowing the caber to regenerate like the spy-cicle after 15 seconds.

Now, for a test idea, differentating the 2 primary shoes:
I think the wee booties should stay as is, while the bootleggers don't increase health, but increase movement speed by a bit and have a heavy reduction to fall damage. It'd be to allow 2 different types of playstyles to a demoknight.

5th class: Le Heavy
We already buffed most of his weaker items and now are a smash to use ^_^, honestly I think the buffalo steak is used much more than the sandvich now <_>
Yet, I still think the eviction notice needs a buff, and I think I came up with a really good idea for what it should be. It should work like the sniper's shahanahsah melee (does 50% less damage while above 50% health while doing 50% more damage while under 50% health) while keeping the high firing speed. It'd make for a great last stand against hale, choosing to fight with fists rather than standing in one spot shooting.

6th class: Engineer
I've had this idea for a long time after reading the unused stats on tf2wiki. Basically, this is a conceptual idea on allowing the...
Eureka Effect: (with these new stats)
- Can't carry buildings
- Builds Minisentries
+ Can place multiple sentries
- No teleport while taunting, but still get refreshed ammo and health (if possible)
- less metal in upgrading
- less metal in repairing

Also, maybe you guys can change the jag to actually have a +30% build rate instead of the current 15% bug.


I don't feel like talk about the last 3 classes in full detail yet (this post took 3 days to get completed with my attention), but I do have two suggestions for the sniper.

Sniper secondary:
Razorback> A long time ago in a distant land, I was told Voidy was attempting to make the razorback work like the demoman's shield for vsh, allowing the demo to take a hit. However it never happened so I suggest maybe if that isn't possible, make it so razorback users take 50% less melee damage.
Jarate> Jarate is practically useless with its 8% rage removal with its long reloading time and not showing whether you hit hale or not. So I suggest 2 alternate ideas:
1) reduce the rage removal to like 4% but let it have either more ammo/faster recharge rate. Gotta spam dem jars at hale
2) Instead of throwing jarate, you can make it so the sniper throws the loose cannon's cannonball at hale. It's actually very fun to do and adds a lot to what a sniper can do.

Please do give this a good read, and pose your own suggestions for weapon buffs and nerfs, someone should really sticky this topic V:
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: lonestar13m on June 29, 2014, 06:30:33 pm
I know there was the weapon update and all but I was hoping someone would reply to my post within the 2 weeks it was up.

Also, the back scatter should do full crits from behind hale instead of mini-crits, if possible.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Lunacy on June 30, 2014, 08:46:43 am
I know there was the weapon update and all but I was hoping someone would reply to my post within the 2 weeks it was up.
- Scout is often a difficult class to deal damage without goomba stomps because you have to be up close to deal any real damage, and anywhere close to the boss is a risk for death or rage, which is why I keep a stock pistol for midrange poke.  Most servers make it only minicrit which is stupid though.

bfb- like turning it into a soda popper that gives speed boost instead of minicrits, would be an excellent change over nerfing to a stock reskin
soda popper - doesn't need to be changed
FaN - fyw even with -10% damage, it still does more total damage than stock (full crit for 196 instead of 180)  people usually use the FaN because it allows them to get a decent ammount of damage in without having to worry about dying from being too close, also escape potential, which is important for vsh
drinks - yknow goombas do crit if you use crit-a-cola, they do about 2000 instead of 1500, drinks don't need any changes
Fan o War - it does indeed reduce rage by 5% per hit, but the fact it seems to do nothing is because that 5% is replaced by 95 damage almost immediately, if it was 10% per hit that would feel OP cuz you could drain a rage meter in less than 5 seconds.
Wrap Assassin - the 2nd ball doesn't add much to damage, it only gives you a second chance, yet people always use them both in a burst and never correct their miss the 2nd time  it's a decent projectile weapon for melee if you don't want to sacrifice any other stats on your melee


reserve shooter - is it still 3 clip in vsh?? but yeah should be 4 otherwise
Equalizer - I'm pretty sure it does not give you any speed, but it does let you attack while stunned now


Pyro has always been more or less of a support class in vsh due to his natural inability to dish out a lot of damage to a single target without dying immediately.
You save lives with airblast, you save engineer buildings (at least until you get raged), too bad there's no bonus for these things.  You could be the crowd favorite with airblasting in the right locations, saving lives and getting them extra damage, but nothing to show for it on the scoreboard (I like to use scoreboard to gauge how well I'm doing :P)
I still want to push the +50 hp on Phlog idea though, will let them take a hit since Phlog isn't a support weapon (could even reduce healing taken if you're worried about overheal, which they still die in 2 hits anyway)


It's true, on servers without tauntcrits, the only viable classes are Demoknight, Spy, and heavy+medic and sometimes sniper.  The shield crit boost often makes demoman a primary damage class since he can pop out 1200 damage in 2 seconds then just charge away to reload.


Jag - is it even possible to make the wrench build with more than 25 metal at a time? imo that would really help the Jag's case if it used 34 metal instead of 25 (6 hits instead of 8


Razorback - guess it could work if it reduced melee damage taken by 45%, that way if you used bushwacka jump even once without a medic heal then you wouldn't have enough health to survived a hit since it'll still do around 110-111 damage per hit, and will still kill you in 2 hits if a medic is healing.  Right now it only really does just stop spy bosses who use a knife.
Jarate - here's a good way to take advantage of the 8% rage removal -- use it right before you think they're going to use rage, they'll be stuck with basic taunt, free to goomba, assuming soldier doesn't knock him out of it

Also, the back scatter should do full crits from behind hale instead of mini-crits, if possible.
I like this
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: MintyFishbowl on August 02, 2014, 12:27:03 am
I've always wanted to see a buff for the Syringe Gun and Blutsauger, if only to give Medics a reason to not use the Crossbow.

A syringe jump could be useful, but I can't see that being easy to implement at all for the devs.
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Lunacy on August 02, 2014, 01:16:55 am
I've always wanted to see a buff for the Syringe Gun and Blutsauger, if only to give Medics a reason to not use the Crossbow.

A syringe jump could be useful, but I can't see that being easy to implement at all for the devs.

Actually we doubled all medic uber gain from weapons, even the syringe gun which is now 10% per hit instead of 5%. (but its still pretty difficult to land 6 syringes out of 40 on a hale)
Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Windy on August 03, 2014, 04:55:51 pm
I've always wanted to see a buff for the Syringe Gun and Blutsauger, if only to give Medics a reason to not use the Crossbow.

A syringe jump could be useful, but I can't see that being easy to implement at all for the devs.
Actually we doubled all medic uber gain from weapons, even the syringe gun which is now 10% per hit instead of 5%. (but its still pretty difficult to land 6 syringes out of 40 on a hale)

These are joke posts, right?

Title: Re: Weapons suggestions general
Post by: Lunacy on August 03, 2014, 06:55:48 pm
Wonder what medic would be like if syringe gun had 100% crits?  Hit efficiency would be like 1200 per clip but you're barely ever gonna hit unless Hale chases you while backpedaling.
Would give even more incentive to use syringes as an alternative to the damaging crossbow, but medic is for heals and ubers.  Seen a lot of medics not pop their ubers without even getting raged.